[Experimental App] Emergence

Halo modding and gaming related applications.
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kiddten
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Re: [Experimental App] Emergence

Post by kiddten » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:29 am

no, more like hmt and/or hhk, and a unprotecter put in for lulz.
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Altimit01
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Re: [Experimental App] Emergence

Post by Altimit01 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:56 pm

Looks nubby. ;p

At least you did something. Apocalypse hasn't been touched for months and months.
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Smythe
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Re: [Experimental App] Emergence

Post by Smythe » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:27 pm

Altimit01 wrote:Looks nubby. ;p

At least you did something. Apocalypse hasn't been touched for months and months.
and what did Apocalypse do exactly?
Image

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Modzy
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Re: [Experimental App] Emergence

Post by Modzy » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:28 pm

Altimit01 wrote:Looks nubby. ;p

At least you did something. Apocalypse hasn't been touched for months and months.
I've been pretty dormant too. Just the past two weeks I got back to working on a few things.
Which reminds me, I'm almost done writing the BSP reflexive parsing code that was meant for Eschaton. The one that gives you all the reflexive locations.

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Altimit01
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Re: [Experimental App] Emergence

Post by Altimit01 » Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:40 pm

Cool beans.

And apoc was just a new setup. C++ based with better control of memory (esch has some issues with objects showing up in places they shouldn't due to weak referencing). Might also have been tag based rather than map based since maps have limitations.
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Re: [Experimental App] Emergence

Post by Sparky » Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:58 pm

Modzy wrote:
Altimit01 wrote:Looks nubby. ;p

At least you did something. Apocalypse hasn't been touched for months and months.
I've been pretty dormant too. Just the past two weeks I got back to working on a few things.
Which reminds me, I'm almost done writing the BSP reflexive parsing code that was meant for Eschaton. The one that gives you all the reflexive locations.
Why do I feel like many of us are doing redundant work?

I've got mine, too. But I'm starting with full meta data support before moving on to the viewing feature. Working from left to right, basically, in terms of its UI.

Maybe we can work together and combine our applications like captain planet. I can handle the Guerilla-type stuff and you can do the Sapien-type stuff.

Or we can all make our own apps :P I don't want to hijack this topic, so I won't talk about my app anymore here.Thanks, Modzy.
Altimit01 wrote:Cool beans.

And apoc was just a new setup. C++ based with better control of memory (esch has some issues with objects showing up in places they shouldn't due to weak referencing). Might also have been tag based rather than map based since maps have limitations.
I was thinking you could make maps from scratch once they are rebuilt.
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Modzy
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Re: [Experimental App] Emergence

Post by Modzy » Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:35 pm

@Sparky:
I started reverse engineering tags a little over a year ago. First two tags I completely reversed were the SBSP and the SCNR, for Pearl's converting processes.
I partially reversed several classes after that, but never had the time to do much else. Recently I have been able to hack up the Guerilla application and retrieve tag map-outs with the data collected. All the research is for an application I started awhile ago, Architect. The current code supports the creation of all currently mapped-out tags, and the building/disassembly of cache(map) files using the created/pre-extracted tags.

Another reason for my wanting to reverse all Halo classes, is to make Pearl %100 accurate in every conversion it does.

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Re: [Experimental App] Emergence

Post by Sparky » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:26 am

Which tags have you not mapped-out? Maybe I can help with something. I understand if you want to finish this on your own, as might be interpreted from your last sentence there. Conure's tags were automatically generated - but you're doing them manually based on the information you retrieved from the application, right?

Is the UI similar to Guerilla's? It seems so from the window I've seen of "New Tag".
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Re: [Experimental App] Emergence

Post by Modzy » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:59 pm

Sparky wrote:Which tags have you not mapped-out? Maybe I can help with something. I understand if you want to finish this on your own, as might be interpreted from your last sentence there. Conure's tags were automatically generated - but you're doing them manually based on the information you retrieved from the application, right?

Is the UI similar to Guerilla's? It seems so from the window I've seen of "New Tag".
I'm planning on finishing this myself. I can semi-auto generate tags from the Guerilla.exe, but the problem is, I can only get the order of where things are in a tag, and how big (ints) each thing is, not the actual offsets in the tag. Due to many tags having inconsistent set-up, it makes these auto-generated map-outs fail a lot of the time, which is where I must come in manually.

The best way I can describe Architect is a combination of Guerilla, tool, and a map editor.

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Altimit01
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Re: [Experimental App] Emergence

Post by Altimit01 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:59 pm

Please tell me architect isn't using RB. Else if it is I really really hope you've got the object assignment versus object referencing issue sorted. I miss pointers.

If you ever feel like tossing your reverse engineered data set my way it'd be appreciated.

Btw, shouldn't the order give you everything you need about offset? Each struct has a static size. As long as you identify reflexives the whole thing should fall into place.
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Modzy
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Re: [Experimental App] Emergence

Post by Modzy » Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:12 pm

Altimit01 wrote:Btw, shouldn't the order give you everything you need about offset? Each struct has a static size. As long as you identify reflexives the whole thing should fall into place.
That's what I thought, but it's off at times; there are seemingly random spots in tags that have blank data, I suppose meant for data that ended up unused, but these blank spaces are not referenced in what I've extracted from Guerilla. If the offsets are off by even a byte, it doesn't work properly, so you see my problem.
Altimit01 wrote:Please tell me architect isn't using RB. Else if it is I really really hope you've got the object assignment versus object referencing issue sorted. I miss pointers.
Architect is currently RB. I haven't had time try and port it to Object-C, which was my goal.

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Altimit01
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Re: [Experimental App] Emergence

Post by Altimit01 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:18 pm

Those blank spots seem familiar. I remember seeing something like that when I looked at raw guerilla tags as well. Does it have anything to do with dependencies by chance? That's always been a bugger to me since you don't have your super incredible awesome list of magic numbers when working outside of a map context.
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Modzy
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Re: [Experimental App] Emergence

Post by Modzy » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:35 pm

Altimit01 wrote:Those blank spots seem familiar. I remember seeing something like that when I looked at raw guerilla tags as well. Does it have anything to do with dependencies by chance? That's always been a bugger to me since you don't have your super incredible awesome list of magic numbers when working outside of a map context.
I believe some have to do with references. But, some just seem like random places where stuff used to be. For example: in the header of a SBSP, you get to a point where it is an array of reflexives, one after the other. Right in the middle of this array are 12 bytes of zero. They're just zeros, they don't do anything at all. They aren't in Guerilla or referenced in the text section its code. Right after the 12 bytes, the array continues. The only thing I can think of is that those 12 bytes used to be a reflexive, which became unused in the final engine, but its space remained. Stuff like that makes the tags really inconsistent, making manual reversing needed.

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Altimit01
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Re: [Experimental App] Emergence

Post by Altimit01 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:00 pm

I know it probably sounds silly and you probably already tried but what happens if you s/\s//g them?

P.S.
I've got a week off next week so might lurk around IRC or some other channel. You gonna be online at all? I'm getting a bit of the old itch to scratch around inside Halo again.
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Re: [Experimental App] Emergence

Post by Modzy » Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:47 pm

Altimit01 wrote:I know it probably sounds silly and you probably already tried but what happens if you s/\s//g them?

P.S.
I've got a week off next week so might lurk around IRC or some other channel. You gonna be online at all? I'm getting a bit of the old itch to scratch around inside Halo again.
I don't want to modify the files, otherwise the map-outs will not work. You said something about looking at raw Guerilla tags, I'm talking about these blank spots in built map files.

Oh, I'll be online.

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