swordedit: An Update

Halo modding and gaming related applications.
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Smythe
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Re: swordedit: An Update

Post by Smythe » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:11 am

Samuco wrote:Why are you so crazy about this? You haven't said anything useful on this forum, except whinge about how junk it is.
Yeah dirk does that from time to time but it is usually wise to listen or at least take what he says into account for a newer version.
At least he's not like some people (Not necessarily on here) who are like
Internet peoples wrote:OMG FAG I HATE UR APPS IT DON'T LOOK GOOD FAG SHIT YOU SUCK SHIT BALLS RAWR I HAVE FRIEND ISSUES!!!
:( new problem, Swapped BSP's using eschaton and tried to select all the objects on the map like weapons, scenery and player spawns and it crashes.
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Re: swordedit: An Update

Post by Samuco » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:05 am

@ Dirk and his Slapz...

Can you just stop? Enough is enough. I'm not following your advice because you have been really negative and nasty. I fixed up most of the bugs in swordedit and gave it out to others, and your contribution is 'it sucks and is ugly'. I wasted my time trying to help you create mods easier. You know why I'm saying no to everything you 'suggest'? Because I don't want to waste my free time making it better for nasty immodest people like you. Do it yourself

Olly has provided useful feedback about it. Sure, he doesn't like the interface, but he didn't then say 'Oh btw you suck and your website is shit and your apps is disgusting and shit'. Maybe you could have said "I prefer the old interface, but yours still looks good. Those buttons at the bottom seem a bit large. Can you also add an option to hide those gradients?.' Olly suggested things (like box select) in a nice way, so I put it in for him. I don't mind spending a bit of free time on things for somebody who isn't nasty :wink:
olly12345 wrote:
Samuco wrote:Why are you so crazy about this? You haven't said anything useful on this forum, except whinge about how junk it is.
Yeah dirk does that from time to time but it is usually wise to listen or at least take what he says into account for a newer version.
At least he's not like some people (Not necessarily on here) who are like
Internet peoples wrote:OMG FAG I HATE UR APPS IT DON'T LOOK GOOD FAG SHIT YOU SUCK SHIT BALLS RAWR I HAVE FRIEND ISSUES!!!
:( new problem, Swapped BSP's using eschaton and tried to select all the objects on the map like weapons, scenery and player spawns and it crashes.
Nah, its just you selected too many things. If you select one kind of object (not the whole map :mrgreen: ), just a few of them too, then it will not crash.

Dirk

Re: swordedit: An Update

Post by Dirk » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:25 am

Samuco wrote: 3) I made it for a 24" iMac (my own) but it also fits perfectly onto a 15" screen. Maybe you should actually try it before immediately coming to a conclusion.
4) Everything in my interface has a reason and a design. Since in swordedit you are constantly moving to those buttons, making them small and hard to click would be stupid. Great idea.
While #3 is true, it is violating my dock space which is something new for me to experience with an application.

My response to #4: HOTKEYS. Why have buttons at all if you can just hit "Command+1-4" easier, faster, and no mouse cursor marathon all over the screen.


You should look at my responses objectively. I am nowhere directly attacking your person. I am confused on a few things that you have said such as the monitor resolution quote. I would say that there are some application design points that I would approach quite drastically different from how you are doing them, but that is all just a matter of coding style. It does seem that you have decided to take all my comments personally because I don't really like where you are taking this.


But on another note after responding to this I was able to cut 13 seconds off of load time for a map editor I am making for another game, so in my mind it is all alright then. And to be clear I had no part in Slappy's response, which may have gone a bit too far in my opinion.

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Re: swordedit: An Update

Post by Sparky » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:25 am

Samuco: Please overlook all insults and arrogant statements made by some of our members here. It takes practice to filter them all out. Most of us greatly appreciate what you're doing here!

Everyone else: Don't slap the hand that feeds me. :evil:

I had a feature request back in the day, to save camera coordinate offsets (camera positions) within the swordedit application. This could be as easy as saving coordinates to a text file in the application support or preferences folder, then read that text file upon launch and load them into a Coordinates window or tab.

I have another suggestion for the UI. Can you make it so that it's like the dock, where you move the cursor to one side and the windows show up? Or you could make a hotkey that toggles the windows into view. Alternatively, a drawer setup like in Preview. (On second thought, I dislike the hotkey idea, because that will just cramp up my hand to use. I also really don't like the drawer, unless the drawer can somehow open over the top of the bottom portion of the window... clearly this takes more thought on my part ;) )

Thanks anyway in advance.
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Dirk Gently
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Re: swordedit: An Update

Post by Dirk Gently » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:53 am

What you should actually be doing is using a radio selector in the place of the large buttons because they do not function as button, they are different editor modes, only one can be in use at a time, therefore a radio selector would be more fitting.

The buttons for the panels should be followed with "..." after the text. This indicates there is a corresponding window dialog that is related to them. OR you could remove the buttons from the main display and put them into the "Windows" menubar item.

The loading bar when you open a map is pretty crude, it should be static as part of the main window.

The panels? Get rid of them, use a drawer from the right side of the window instead. This will allow for less visual clutter and ease of control access without having panels float around your screen.

Honestly, learn to use "setBackgroundColor" on a window to set a background image. This image-view-thing for the window gradient is just not a good idea.

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Re: swordedit: An Update

Post by Sparky » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:01 am

The real estate is still a problem if you use a drawer, right? You'd still have to haggle with the window size, unless the window automatically resized when you toggled the drawer. But then why not just have the drawer open into the window instead of outside of the window. If that's not so easy, then I'd have to settle with the window resizing automatically when the drawer opens (but there must be a better way)...
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Re: swordedit: An Update

Post by nil » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:04 am

Hey, your work on updating this application is cool and all. We're just giving suggestions/advise (though admitting-ly some of it may seem 'mean'). I don't actually like the new interface so much, but if you insist to use it, then improvements definitely exist and they really shouldn't be that hard to fix:
Samuco wrote:The default window is supposed to be full screen. The whole interface is designed for a 24" in iMac or larger.
1) Admit that this is an insane requirement, and realize it doesn't have to be a requirement.
2) When the application initiates, two things happen in sequence. One, the main window appears and comes up normal-sized. Two, you programatically resize the window to take up the majority of the screen. Eliminate the second (programatically-resize) step.
3) Put an autosave attribute to the swordedit window so that anyone, including you, can size and position it how they want. In addition, the window's size and position should be remembered on next launch.
Samuco wrote:You can't resize the panels. You can though close them. The panels take up the same amount of room as the original UI because you can close them.
I can make it so that only 'important' panels appear at launch.
You are right, you can't resize the panels, but you can certainly move and position them somewhere else. So, you should set an autosave attribute for those windows as well if you intend to keep them.
I am no longer active to Halo or MGM, and don't guarantee a response on the forums or through email. I will however linger around the discord room for general chatting. It's been fun!

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Re: swordedit: An Update

Post by Moxus » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:30 am

Samuco wrote:@ Dirk and his Slapz...

Can you just stop? Enough is enough. I'm not following your advice because you have been really negative and nasty. I fixed up most of the bugs in swordedit and gave it out to others, and your contribution is 'it sucks and is ugly'. I wasted my time trying to help you create mods easier. You know why I'm saying no to everything you 'suggest'? Because I don't want to waste my free time making it better for nasty immodest people like you. Do it yourself.
  • 1. The validity of points is independent of the way in which they're presented; you shouldn't not listen to Dirk and Slapz just because they were negative.

    2. It's an injustice to reduce Dirk and Slapz's part of the argument to "it sucks and is ugly"; such a statement misrepresents the points and logic used.
Sparky wrote:Everyone else: Don't slap the hand that feeds me. :evil:
Don't slap the hand that feeds you? Since when did you become the primary audience on this board?

-=Moxus=-

P.S. My apologies if my post has been out-of-place; I've been unable to post before now.
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Many thanks to the people who have made my years on MGM and on Halo Demo so memorable.

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Re: swordedit: An Update

Post by Samuco » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:31 pm

Sparky wrote:I had a feature request back in the day, to save camera coordinate offsets (camera positions) within the swordedit application. This could be as easy as saving coordinates to a text file in the application support or preferences folder, then read that text file upon launch and load them into a Coordinates window or tab.
Exactly what I have done for saving :)
Try saving a map file... swordedit should relaunch with the camera in the same spot.
Sparky wrote:I have another suggestion for the UI. Can you make it so that it's like the dock, where you move the cursor to one side and the windows show up? Or you could make a hotkey that toggles the windows into view. Alternatively, a drawer setup like in Preview. (On second thought, I dislike the hotkey idea, because that will just cramp up my hand to use. I also really don't like the drawer, unless the drawer can somehow open over the top of the bottom portion of the window... clearly this takes more thought on my part ;) )

Thanks anyway in advance.
So... you move the mouse to the right side of the screen and the panels appear? Simple enough.
I have to prepare MouseWizard 6.0 for release, but Ill do a bit more work on the UI when I am done.
Dirk Gently wrote:What you should actually be doing is using a radio selector in the place of the large buttons because they do not function as button, they are different editor modes, only one can be in use at a time, therefore a radio selector would be more fitting.
True, but not all of them are editor modes. But I see your point.
Dirk Gently wrote:The buttons for the panels should be followed with "..." after the text. This indicates there is a corresponding window dialog that is related to them. OR you could remove the buttons from the main display and put them into the "Windows" menubar item.
Will add the '...'
Dirk Gently wrote:The loading bar when you open a map is pretty crude, it should be static as part of the main window.
Where would you suggest adding it? The renderview is always the front layer because of open GL, which is the reason for a separate window. I may be able to add it to the top though.
Dirk Gently wrote:Honestly, learn to use "setBackgroundColor" on a window to set a background image. This image-view-thing for the window gradient is just not a good idea.
It's a custom box... Image-views would be crazy lol. Ill decide when I look at it.
nil wrote:1) Admit that this is an insane requirement, and realize it doesn't have to be a requirement.
I know it is. Unfortunately box select doesn't yet work without full screen. If this was not the case, I would have no issue changing it.

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Re: swordedit: An Update

Post by Dirk Gently » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:44 pm

Samuco wrote: 1.
Dirk Gently wrote:What you should actually be doing is using a radio selector in the place of the large buttons because they do not function as button, they are different editor modes, only one can be in use at a time, therefore a radio selector would be more fitting.
True, but not all of them are editor modes. But I see your point.

2.
Dirk Gently wrote:The buttons for the panels should be followed with "..." after the text. This indicates there is a corresponding window dialog that is related to them. OR you could remove the buttons from the main display and put them into the "Windows" menubar item.
Will add the '...'

3.
Dirk Gently wrote:The loading bar when you open a map is pretty crude, it should be static as part of the main window.
Where would you suggest adding it? The renderview is always the front layer because of open GL, which is the reason for a separate window. I may be able to add it to the top though.

4.
Dirk Gently wrote:Honestly, learn to use "setBackgroundColor" on a window to set a background image. This image-view-thing for the window gradient is just not a good idea.
It's a custom box... Image-views would be crazy lol. Ill decide when I look at it.
1.stop trying to be technical, they are mode for the main editor of swordedit. You know exactly what I am saying.

2.personally I would like them in the window menu-bar item but atleast this gives the user an indication the purpose behind them.

3. drop-down sheet from the main window with a progress bar on it should do fine. That way you are not left with an ownerless window if you minimize swordedit in the middle of it loading the map.

4.All unneeded. They cause slower app load times and can slow down the function of the application as a whole if you have lots of UI elements that need to get rendered. To be perfectly honest I had originally thought they were plain HUD panels, but now I see they have 100x more elements than they originally appeared to have. This is just clutter that is not needed. Panels are low profile windows, especially HUD ones. I am asking you to please drop this third party HUD framework you are using, it is just creating un-needed mess on the UI.

Samuco

Re: swordedit: An Update

Post by Samuco » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:35 pm

Program: www.samuco.net/swordedit.zip
Source: www.samuco.net/swordedit_source.zip

Note: No more interface changes from now on. I am finally happy with it. Removing the gradients proved to be harder than it seems, so I simply left them there. :roll:
Now that I have the tools, I can finally make my bumper cars mod. Look for my server.

When you quit and open swordedit again, it will automatically load the last opened map with the same camera position.
There's also a full screen option now too.

Enjoy!

@nil: Is it possible to change the map whilst a server is still running (like, without having to restart the server gametype)
@everybody: If you are unhappy with the interface, you can probably just replace the nib file with the old one. You'll lose a few features though...

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Smythe
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Re: swordedit: An Update

Post by Smythe » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:13 pm

Ok so why can't i see anything on bloodgulch? no vehicles appear just the BSP.
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Re: swordedit: An Update

Post by Samuco » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:25 pm

It's probably from an old settings file. A reboot should fix this.

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Re: swordedit: An Update

Post by sword » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:42 pm

ooh lah lah. This looks cool. I haven't taken a look at any of the code yet (can't wait to) but it looks like the backend still desperately needs a good rewrite, something that I can't do on my own since I'm about to head back to college. Instead, would you be interested in turning your code into a community project? I've still got the swordedit googlecode project and I'd be more than happy to make you, Samuco, and the few capable others in this community part of the project / project leaders.

This is a great opportunity to finally make swordedit worthwhile. I have been wanting for quite some time to rewrite the scenario rebuilding code in swordedit because of how large of a piece of crap it currently is, but to do so would mean rewriting quite a bit of supporting or dependent code. Moreover, I want to make the code actually respect which class owns data so that errors will be cut down and the entire thing will be easier to read, debug, and add onto. In short I wish to make a small yet powerful map parsing framework that specializes in scenario editing and rendering engine and which are entirely independent of a gui (unlike what it currently is).
The sword.

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Re: swordedit: An Update

Post by Samuco » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:51 pm

College is still three years away for me. I am also about to head back to high school, so I won't have much time either. I don't mind editing small parts of the code or GUI, but I also have to fit time for school and my other software projects. The duplicate button also doesn't seem to work. Simple fix though :)

-Sharpy

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