[Preface: I've been involved with FPS multiplayer networked gaming since early Doom - and have worked my way through Marathon, Quake, UT, Ghr, MoH and Joint Ops Escalation...So - while not claiming to be a great player - I at least think I can be called an 'experienced' player.]
Since the early days of high-mobile multiplayer FPS (notably Unreal Tournament) a word has crept into our vocablorary that is used as a disparaging indictment of a section of our community who have become something akin to lepers...The 'Campers'.
And more recently - while playing 'Joint Operations' on the PC (think: very large scale Ghost Recon) I have been introduced to another phrase to describe a hated segment of players; 'spawn rapers'.
Spawn raping, I should explain - as the notion doesn't seem to exist in Ghost Recon - is when a player deliberately makes their way to the opposing teams spawning area to kill enemy as they spawn.
I have witnessed players been cursed loudly for doing this in Joint Ops; and even bounced from the game AND even banned from certain game servers!
Yet, why do we - as a community - look at camping and spawn raping as NEGATIVE tactics - particularly when we play games that are supposed to be recreating, somewhat faithfully, battlefield squad warfare?
Let's take a look at these two 'tactics' more closely:
CAMPING - SNIPING BY ANY OTHER NAME...
On a smaller map 'camping' can be said to be negative to the flow of a fast moving game (which is where it originated, in fast mobile games like Unreal Tournament & Quake). Where a game is based on fluid point to point action, 'camping' can be seen to hinder the enjoyment of this form of play and can create artificial 'bottle necks' or barriers in maps carefully design to provide fast avenues of movement.
However, Quake and Unreal Tournament could hardly be said to be 'realistic' representations of squad based warfare - they are 'games' pure and simple. Games like Ghost Recon & Joint Ops on the other had do profess to be 'faithful' in their recreation of battlefield scenarios...
Furthermore - and most importantly - they INCLUDE the sniper class as an integral part of the game make-up!
So tell me this: if the game makers did not want people to camp, then why include the sniper class at all? As the very founding idea of the military sniper (from the Boar War through the First World War to Vietnam and beyond) has been to 'camp'. 'Camping' is simply another word for one of the snipers most basic tactics - learned early in sniper school - that being the tactic of the FIXED POSITION HIDE.
The North Vietnamese snipers were masters of this tactic - locating themselves at known hot-spots of American 'traffic', and waiting for a target of opportunity to appear, having already dialled in the known range.
German snipers of the First World War - acknowledged originators of many of todays sniper tactics - were based upon the Bavarian hunters, who used specially constructed fixed position shooting platforms.
...In other words, the world's greatest snipers were campers!
(Only the British, using Scottish stalking hunters - called 'Gillis' - used a different sniping technique which was based on 'closing' on the enemy. This is where we get the term 'Gillie suit', after the home-made hessian camouflage suits these Highland hunters wore.)
However, snipers were a hated individual on the battlefield, as their killing was very personal. They sought out individuals among the masses and impationately singled them out for killing. And in a way this is probably why we gamers still dislike 'campers'...Because it's personal.
SPAWN RAPING - DENYING THE ENEMY SECURITY
Joint Operations adds something additional to what we are used to in Ghost Recon - scale. Maps are vast, as are the numbers of players involved, up to 150 players fighting at once.
It's sniper heaven - rolling hills overlooking isolated bases. Plenty of opportunity to pick off targets of opportunity...
But more, at either end of the maps are the opposing forces main bases - base X - where, usually, the best equipment is kept - APCs, attack helicopters, tanks and the like - but base X is also the safe haven for spawning when other bases are too 'hot' to spawn in.
Enter 'spawn raping'. There is nothing more frustrating then spawning in what you what you think is comparative safety, well back from the front line, just to be fragged or sniped just as you re-spawn!
This is spawn-raping - camping outside a main base just waiting for unsuspecting enemy to spawn and then pick them off while they are unable to defend themselves.
With any luck the enemy will spawn slowly back at X - giving you plenty of time to snipe them one at a time.
Nasty, sneaky little tactic, eh? No self-respecting soldier would do such a despicable thing, would they?
Well, actually yes they would!
I find is very amusing that all these young players - the spotty youths who like nothing better than to play 'special forces', like the SAS, Green Berets, Rangers or Commandos - moan like little girls when they are victims of spawn raping!
I have seen them swear and curse at the spawn-rapers, threaten them with banning!
This nonsense shows complete ignorance of both military reality and history.
Special units like the British SAS and the American Rangers were both specifically created to work far behind enemy lines, destroying men and material in logistical staging areas in order to deny the enemy much needed reinforcements and replacements.
These tactics had the further advantage of making the enemy pull back much needed forces in order to guard their rear areas from such attacks. Thus these special units helped their fellow soldiers at the front line by tieing up enemy away from the front...
In other words - the SAS, LRDG, US Rangers, Airborne Divisions, Commandos and famous groups like The Chindits and 'Merril's Marauders' SPAWN RAPED!
From a gaming point of view too, if the game makers did not want spawn raping to happen then they would have created 'safe fire zones' at the X bases; or - as in Ghost Recon - introduced spawn invulnerability (a period of time, set on the server, giving the spawner invulnerability while they left the spawn zone).
So, if it's not against the game rules, and IS good military tactics, then what's all the agro about?
Well, again like camping, the problem is more about frustration and the interruption of mobile game play. This is because, largely speaking, the less mature players play less to recreate the experience of modern warfare, but rather want to play 'Quake' with realistic weapons.
There a big difference between the two game types - the 'Quake' model is based on head-to-head gunplay, with fast return to the battle on being killed. It's about running up a high kill-rate, with little regard to how many times you are killed - just an impatience to get back into the fray as quickly as possible.
This is diametrically opposed to realistically modelling the military battlefield. Where staying alive is the primary goal, as is the protection of strategic and tactical material and territory.
Individual 'scores' are not as important as team-work and defence of advantages gained in battle.
IN CONCLUSION
Camping and spawn-raping can be said to be an integral and maybe even key part of modern battlefield tactics. And therefore an indispensable part of any game which says it is trying to recreate modern warfare.
I personally have no sympathy with those who bemoan either tactic. And I have suffered at the hands of both campers and spawn-rapers on many an occasion - the difference in my attitude is that I recognize them as being legitimate military tactics, and I even applauded the tactic when it is well or cleverly done (even if I am the victim).
In my defence of these tactics you may conclude that I am a regular user of these tactics. But that is not the truth - I almost never camp - I have never been good in the sniper role - and I only rarely spawn-rape. Mainly doing this ONLY if the opportunity arises - should I find myself 'in the zone'.
I have little patience with the immature petulance of the spotty youths who curse this tactic. As the players who complain about this invariably are only interested in getting back into action as quickly as possible to increase their personal scores, rather than being team-players interested in helping to gain a team win.
Long live the campers and spawn-rapers! If for no other reason than they give me something to hunt!
'Camping' & 'Spawn Raping' - Bad thing? (Article)
They wouldn't be able to spawn-rape unless your own team let them inside your bases defensive. If teams set-up a defensive perimeter around their main spawn zone, spawn campers wouldn't be able to get near it.
The people who are cursing this tactic are infact cursing at themselves for not being smart enough to guard their base to prevent such tactics.
The people who are cursing this tactic are infact cursing at themselves for not being smart enough to guard their base to prevent such tactics.
"You can't spell slaughter without laughter."
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CyberPsycho
- Newbie
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:17 pm
- Location: 127.0.0.1
Hmmmmm
what do you know !! he/she signed guest.
verry courageous, BTW im a sniper,big news.
personaly , i played a bit of Doom, UnrealT, Unreal, and lots of mods for UT like TacOps and 2 other but cant remember the names, some Quake, some R6
and lots of Rogue Spear, i liked Rogue Spear and RSUO,
rs had no respawn and it was great, sometimes i was seeing a guy running on the map like a headless chicken firering a mp5, and getting shot. i dont like the running and shooting of UT,
i was not always a sniper then but i always liked long range shooting ,
i like the fact that the ennemy has no idea that am slowly zeroing on his pupil and that the second he stops he's dead.
( in adv or coop ) .
i dont think that sniping is camping, i think sniping is seeing the ennemy before he see's you. and not give out your position, harder to do in coop even if you use sd , in some map, in coop the tango hear your shot like if it was loud.
but in adv. if im sd the ennemy hear no evill see no evill.
in coop lots of map you need to move your ass off.
and as a sniper you can't just expect to run and when you see a tango, there is too little time to crouch and sniff dirt , wait for reticule and then shoot, its verry hard to do, most guns have a good accuracy if you run or walk crouch, stop aim , reticule, zero in , stop breating, and shoot, i like to cover my team from a distance ,but i have to keep in mind that the further from me they go the faster they gona see the tango, anyway they goonna see the tango apearing at the horizon before i see him. i try to keep up but its hard to compete with G5 with a 256 vid card. My sniper is way slower than kat sniper, ( not to site he/her ) and i think shooting your team mate in the back is verry mature.
but what the hell its only a game,
im happy if they like what they do.
while im zeroing on a tango that is zeroing on the my teammate a bit behind me, i eliminate the tango, that was 1 sec away to shoot my buddy behind me, my buddy shoots me , and he get shot by another tango that i was about to shoot.
Anyway, im greatfull im banned i needed a break,
specialy when ends up dont knowing who is who, or who is the guy who bought 25 prem accounts for his 25 computers mac/pc in his living room. and make his pleasure by making others suffer.
do you like hypocrytes , i dont !
i dare the G********* A**** to give me another month to teach me respect.
edited june 3 , ok i dont think i wanna dare him anymore.
.
sorry if my text is incoherent , im about to fall a sleep i didnt sleep since the moring of june first.
to reasure you its not the last time you hear from me.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
verry courageous, BTW im a sniper,big news.
personaly , i played a bit of Doom, UnrealT, Unreal, and lots of mods for UT like TacOps and 2 other but cant remember the names, some Quake, some R6
and lots of Rogue Spear, i liked Rogue Spear and RSUO,
rs had no respawn and it was great, sometimes i was seeing a guy running on the map like a headless chicken firering a mp5, and getting shot. i dont like the running and shooting of UT,
i was not always a sniper then but i always liked long range shooting ,
i like the fact that the ennemy has no idea that am slowly zeroing on his pupil and that the second he stops he's dead.
( in adv or coop ) .
i dont think that sniping is camping, i think sniping is seeing the ennemy before he see's you. and not give out your position, harder to do in coop even if you use sd , in some map, in coop the tango hear your shot like if it was loud.
but in adv. if im sd the ennemy hear no evill see no evill.
in coop lots of map you need to move your ass off.
and as a sniper you can't just expect to run and when you see a tango, there is too little time to crouch and sniff dirt , wait for reticule and then shoot, its verry hard to do, most guns have a good accuracy if you run or walk crouch, stop aim , reticule, zero in , stop breating, and shoot, i like to cover my team from a distance ,but i have to keep in mind that the further from me they go the faster they gona see the tango, anyway they goonna see the tango apearing at the horizon before i see him. i try to keep up but its hard to compete with G5 with a 256 vid card. My sniper is way slower than kat sniper, ( not to site he/her ) and i think shooting your team mate in the back is verry mature.
but what the hell its only a game,
im happy if they like what they do.
while im zeroing on a tango that is zeroing on the my teammate a bit behind me, i eliminate the tango, that was 1 sec away to shoot my buddy behind me, my buddy shoots me , and he get shot by another tango that i was about to shoot.
Anyway, im greatfull im banned i needed a break,
specialy when ends up dont knowing who is who, or who is the guy who bought 25 prem accounts for his 25 computers mac/pc in his living room. and make his pleasure by making others suffer.
do you like hypocrytes , i dont !
i dare the G********* A**** to give me another month to teach me respect.
edited june 3 , ok i dont think i wanna dare him anymore.
.
sorry if my text is incoherent , im about to fall a sleep i didnt sleep since the moring of june first.
to reasure you its not the last time you hear from me.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Last edited by CyberPsycho on Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
127.0.0.1 sweet 127.0.0.1 , http://www.redferret.net/ http://www.hackaday.com/ http://www.engadget.com/ http://www.tuaw.com/
Re: Hmmmmm
hmm.... you lost me there. Who banned you? Who is the M***** F*****? Who has 25 premium accounts? It would be silly for anyone to have more than 1 at a time. And, who is the real psychopath? Tip. V•••••••??? hmmm. Could that be me?CyberPsycho wrote:Anyway, im greatfull im banned i needed a break,
specialy when ends up dont knowing who is who, or who is the guy who bought 25 prem accounts for his 25 computers mac/pc in his living room. and make his pleasure by making others suffer.
do you like hypocrytes , i dont !
i dare the M***** F***** to give me another month to teach me respect.
.
sorry if my text is incoherent , im about to fall a sleep i didnt sleep since the moring of june first.
to reasure you its not the last time you hear from me.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Ho ya, are you guys so blind that you dont see who is the real psychopath here. Tip. V•••••••
I feel a bit of animosity bleeding out of your post. But maybe your demeanor was lost in translation.
Why all this came out in a spawn camping post is the other question.
"You can't spell slaughter without laughter."
get a grip
Cyber,get a grip. Better yet, get some sleep mon ami. You are not very coherent right now. Where did you get banned? By whom? Just sayin...
DRINK DUFF. We fight to keep it free.
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sparrow
- Newbie
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:21 pm
- Location: Baltimore, Maryland United States
Camping is, in my eyes, a legitimate tactic and I have never understood why people get so upset about it. Especially when your team is defending.
Spawn killing can be easily avoided by playing no respawn.
Excellent points made by the original poster.
Spawn killing can be easily avoided by playing no respawn.
Excellent points made by the original poster.
Last edited by sparrow on Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Waiter, theres a terrorist in my soup.
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CyberPsycho
- Newbie
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:17 pm
- Location: 127.0.0.1
Hi guys
OK first , im sorry for what i could have just said.
im having/passing through difficult times now.
i never felt that bad in my life.
and i am seeking/getting help.
to become a better person.
i was banned because i impersonated Scott.
i knew that i was gonna get banned,
i kinda silently screamed for help.
I hope you read this M. Scott Kevill ,
i want to say i'm sorry
for everything i ever done to you and done bad, on gr.
i dont ask to get unbanned, im gonna do my month.
I also want to apologize to everybody for being such a dumbass, moron, jerk, stupid, etc.
im gonna take this month of june to,
- one illegal substance.
- the internet
- maybe more i am just starting to realize it.
I know lots of you know that i am verry impulsive,:flaming:
i react badly to many situations, im working on that also,
how ?
Dunno what could be the right sentence but in french
we say " Tourne ta langue 7 fois dans ta bouche avant de parler. "
It mean word for word : " Turn your tongue 7 times in your mouth before speaking. "
or think of what you gonna say, and think of the consequenses your words will have on other people.
I would appreciate if you find a place in your heart to fogive me for the terririble things i could have done or said.
When i am being impulsive
i dont/cant always, weight the weight of my words or actions.
One thing you could do for me when it happen is say, "Cyber !! breath* " (*breathing slow and long) or "Cyber your tongue" , thx
Cyber wants to feel better, and be better.
all comments are welcome, i can take "criticizim" in a constructive way.
i realize that this is a gaming forum,
im gonna take my things in my own forum if you dont mind, but if you still want me to post that kinda stuff here, its also ok with me.
Peace, out for tonight.
C¥ber.
im having/passing through difficult times now.
i never felt that bad in my life.
and i am seeking/getting help.
to become a better person.
i was banned because i impersonated Scott.
i knew that i was gonna get banned,
i kinda silently screamed for help.
I hope you read this M. Scott Kevill ,
i want to say i'm sorry
for everything i ever done to you and done bad, on gr.
i dont ask to get unbanned, im gonna do my month.
I also want to apologize to everybody for being such a dumbass, moron, jerk, stupid, etc.
im gonna take this month of june to,
- Meditate on my situation
think about what is happenning to me.
and more.
- one illegal substance.
- the internet
- maybe more i am just starting to realize it.
I know lots of you know that i am verry impulsive,:flaming:
i react badly to many situations, im working on that also,
how ?
Dunno what could be the right sentence but in french
we say " Tourne ta langue 7 fois dans ta bouche avant de parler. "
It mean word for word : " Turn your tongue 7 times in your mouth before speaking. "
or think of what you gonna say, and think of the consequenses your words will have on other people.
I would appreciate if you find a place in your heart to fogive me for the terririble things i could have done or said.
When i am being impulsive
i dont/cant always, weight the weight of my words or actions. One thing you could do for me when it happen is say, "Cyber !! breath* " (*breathing slow and long) or "Cyber your tongue" , thx
Cyber wants to feel better, and be better.
all comments are welcome, i can take "criticizim" in a constructive way.
i realize that this is a gaming forum,
im gonna take my things in my own forum if you dont mind, but if you still want me to post that kinda stuff here, its also ok with me.
Peace, out for tonight.
C¥ber.
127.0.0.1 sweet 127.0.0.1 , http://www.redferret.net/ http://www.hackaday.com/ http://www.engadget.com/ http://www.tuaw.com/
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CyberPsycho
- Newbie
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:17 pm
- Location: 127.0.0.1
Cyber. agrees
Cyber. agreessparrow wrote:Camping is, in my eyes, a letitimate tactic and I have never understood why people get so upset about it. Especially when your team is defending.
Spawn killing can be easily avoided by playing no respawn.
Excellent points made by the original poster.
127.0.0.1 sweet 127.0.0.1 , http://www.redferret.net/ http://www.hackaday.com/ http://www.engadget.com/ http://www.tuaw.com/
tough times
Cyber - we have played together for years, on Game Ranger - Ghost Recon. There have been times when your actions were reprehensible and I patiently waited for you to "come around." I, too, have noticed a decline in your behavior and regret that you chose to impersonate Scott Kevill and be banned from Game Ranger. Remember that you are in our thoughts and prayers as you enter the recovery phase.
Dieu vous bénissent.
Dieu vous bénissent.
DRINK DUFF. We fight to keep it free.
-
CyberPsycho
- Newbie
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:17 pm
- Location: 127.0.0.1
Cyber is happy now.
its like day and night , white and black,
the sun is high and bright.
without giving out the details,
Singing: ....met a girl.
She is around 26 , she is so cute, she likes what i like, 90%. when i look into her eyes i see her, looking at my eyes, and her eyes are sparkling with stars and joy, she is still studying,
and the most important thing i think, we are attracted to each other like magnets. we fit toghether like: ( like when we say in french for any subjet, when 2 parts fit togheter wih a perfect fit ) Çà fitte comme Papa dans Maman.
Dont forget you can always look at my forum.
http://yottabyte.forumhut.com/
the sun is high and bright.
without giving out the details,
Singing: ....met a girl.
She is around 26 , she is so cute, she likes what i like, 90%. when i look into her eyes i see her, looking at my eyes, and her eyes are sparkling with stars and joy, she is still studying,
and the most important thing i think, we are attracted to each other like magnets. we fit toghether like: ( like when we say in french for any subjet, when 2 parts fit togheter wih a perfect fit ) Çà fitte comme Papa dans Maman.
Dont forget you can always look at my forum.
http://yottabyte.forumhut.com/
127.0.0.1 sweet 127.0.0.1 , http://www.redferret.net/ http://www.hackaday.com/ http://www.engadget.com/ http://www.tuaw.com/
-
[BIG] Ranger
- Operative
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:38 am
- Location: UK
- Contact:
Hi there all...
First off sorry I didn't sign my name to this post (I forgot to log in - AGAIN!)
Wasn't trying to hide anything - I don't mind that other players know my opinions.
As has been said - camping & spawn raping can be easily countered by good defensive tactics. I suppose the main trouble is - unless you are really team-spirited - not a lot of people have the temprement or patience to play defence.
It's not so bad on Ghost Recon - even playing defence - because of the relatively small maps - you are assured of reasonable amount of 'traffic'...
Imagine on 'Joint Operations' or teh new 'Battlefoeld 2' thought! - HUGE maps...Which can leave a defender spending most of teh game twiddling their thumbs while thier 'attacking' mates rank up the kills!
But we are talking GhR - and we are all good teamplayers aren't we, so don't mind a bit of defending now and again. LOL
First off sorry I didn't sign my name to this post (I forgot to log in - AGAIN!)
Wasn't trying to hide anything - I don't mind that other players know my opinions.
As has been said - camping & spawn raping can be easily countered by good defensive tactics. I suppose the main trouble is - unless you are really team-spirited - not a lot of people have the temprement or patience to play defence.
It's not so bad on Ghost Recon - even playing defence - because of the relatively small maps - you are assured of reasonable amount of 'traffic'...
Imagine on 'Joint Operations' or teh new 'Battlefoeld 2' thought! - HUGE maps...Which can leave a defender spending most of teh game twiddling their thumbs while thier 'attacking' mates rank up the kills!
But we are talking GhR - and we are all good teamplayers aren't we, so don't mind a bit of defending now and again. LOL
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