The Venus Project

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Kiyoshi
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Re: The Venus Project

Post by Kiyoshi » Wed May 18, 2011 3:39 am

TaxiService wrote:That's what i mean. DENYING the nature of humans to become something better. WE'VE GOT TO EVOLVE!!!
Denying nature would mean denying the ability to evolve. It is part of nature, evolution. You sound like Dr. Breen from half-life, no offense.

This is really silly, and this is the last post I'll make on such matters, everything can be twisted to make another a bad guy (ex. Gov, God, Man) and the truth is yes, some are evil but it's not all black and white and things cannot be all good all the time. sacrifices need to be made sometimes for the greater good and it would be no different. You're speaking of rebelling against the nation, why? You aren't forced to live here, if you wish to create a new place to live, go do it.

Last thing I'll post is this. Try to listen to it yeah?




If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much,
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son.
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Yarok
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Re: The Venus Project

Post by Yarok » Wed May 18, 2011 9:00 am

Live how you want and don't give any fucks to the idiots around you. They'll live their lives and you'll live yours and nothing significant will happen.
TaxiService wrote:I've got no soul
As I surreptitiously put my tallywhacker into the jet

TaxiService
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Re: The Venus Project

Post by TaxiService » Wed May 18, 2011 12:23 pm

Kiyoshi wrote:You're speaking of rebelling against the nation, why? You aren't forced to live here, if you wish to create a new place to live, go do it.
Nonono. I didn't mean that. Let me rephrase: I believe there are some heads that would be better off blown… off.

The ones that make water cost more than coca cola in underdeveloped countries for example. Those heads should be blown off (only if by doing this the process would stop, not because of guilt.)

--but this is offtopic i believe. :-\ also not completely righteous. I am not sure about what i mean. I am not able to express my thoughts clearly.



Anyway i'll rephrase another statement i did: We have got to ditch our shitty human behaviors to evolve. By "DENYING THE HUMAN NATURE" i ineptly meant "denying some traits of the human nature". :-\ sorry, that came out wrong in the previous post.

The two traits that, right now, i believe are keeping humanity from evolving are:
- Belief in gods
- Violence as a solution to problems


…there, that's what i was trying to express earlier. o_o° sorry, most of the time i… uhh, yeah, find it difficult to expre-- wait! i already said that!




EDIT: PS: then yeah, of course all you can do is not care and live in a shack on the side of a lake with your woman and living by fishing. That would be freaking awesome. I would love to think like this, but *right now* i am too much neurotic.
I am trying to change though.
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Kiyoshi
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Re: The Venus Project

Post by Kiyoshi » Wed May 18, 2011 8:46 pm

TaxiService wrote: The two traits that, right now, i believe are keeping humanity from evolving are:
- Belief in gods
- Violence as a solution to problems.
1. It's not the belief in Gods that is the problem, it's the human mindset of "I'm right, you're wrong" It's been proven by the Russian leader who killed religious anything way back when thinking it his way was the right way. All he did was slaughter innocent people because of their beliefs, it's about being accepting of the different ways of life, not about a certain way of life being the sole reason.

I agree with 2 though.
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Re: The Venus Project

Post by Fonzeh » Wed May 18, 2011 11:30 pm

Paraphrasing here...

A tree with good sun, good soil. Lots of space to grow and flourish, will indeed become a mighty tree.

A tree with shady to no sun, cheap soil, and a cramped area beside a dumpster, will not be a mighty tree, if grow at all.

Humans are the same in this retrospect.

Kiyoshi for once in our many disputes i agree with you, but sadly my eyes and thoughts dont allow me to see any good in a lot of people. I agree it shouldn't be black and white, but so far thats all im seeing. Eventually everyone who makes money just wants more money. And that is true bro.

It's not rebellion though my brother, its revolution. If it was as simple as writing my congress saying i didnt like it and they actually cared, and didnt just send me a pre written piece of paper saying "thank you for your concern", Id probably wouldnt even had to make this thread.

Either way, no need to bash anything, you can simply just have some input on what you think people can do to make life better. Even the smallest things count. I'd enjoy some intelligent discussion here.

And yes taxi i am still agreeing with you lol.

All im looking for is a bit o dat human awareness to what they didnt know.
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tokage
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Re: The Venus Project

Post by tokage » Thu May 19, 2011 12:28 am

the people who designed this are visionary, intelligent, educated and entirely impractical.

The ideas, inventions and cities described in the Venus Project are nice to think about and probably won't happen for several hundred years if people learn about and support this. Unfortunately, the way people currently think of support is donation. So creating something along the lines of this would also require people to give up their jobs and all preconceptions of what a society should look like. Unfortunately, people like those things.

So basically we would have to be willing to live in a relatively unchanged world where people started to think a lot differently and be happy knowing that people were going in the right direction.

My perspective is flawed. I don't know how, but that's the goddamn beauty of it: we have no idea how bad our ideas are until someone else tells us

So go ahead and tell me how stupid I am and how this is totally workable in a short period of time. Because when you get right down to it that's really the main principle behind this. Er... I think.


Oh, and this had about 4 instances of 'basically' in the first draft and i hate myself a little bit for it



EDIT: I just looked at the store in Venus Project.
The dickhead Fresco is selling his book on anti-monetary society for $36
Fucktons of people will buy it. And He will get rich
What's the Lojban word for 'Irony?'
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TaxiService
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Re: The Venus Project

Post by TaxiService » Thu May 19, 2011 8:23 am

‘ranxi’ --> x1 is ironic(al)/contrary to expectation x2 in state/property/aspect x3
the phrase would be something like:

Code: Select all

"Venus project" ranxi "people" "monetary"
but i believe that the second parameter could be substituted with zo'e, that is like leaving it empty.
This is because it's the whole situation that's ironic; it is not the people that is being ironic-ated. o_o


Kiyoshi wrote:the problem is the human mindset of "I'm right, you're wrong"
I can't answer. If i say "you're right" it would be problematic. :P

But no, i know what you mean. You mean that "UGGH NO I AM RIGHT THUS YOU GOTTA STFU" is wrong, and you're right! (XD)

In italy we say "The truth is in the middle".
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Fonzeh
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Re: The Venus Project

Post by Fonzeh » Thu May 19, 2011 1:34 pm

No need to get defensive loki, your just expressing your views. Upon more research i found out that the venus project actually split from Peter Joseph's Zeitgeist movement. For bogus reasons honestly. Peter Joseph wouldnt donate to their Million Dollar movie their trying to make, thinking that this money could be used for prototypes and showcases of technology to come, rather than making another useless movie for a world full of small intention spanned citizens. I gotta agree with peter. And yeah loki i saw donation and store and all that and i myself was puzzled. I understand to an extent you still need money due to the fact that this is a monetary system still. But cmon, zeitgeist doenst ask for donations. Either way though i still have to say i really like and enjoy some of the lectures and ideas they have for the future. I guess everyone cant agree with everything people do.
Kiyoshi wrote: it's the human mindset of "I'm right, you're wrong"
That and many other things. Humans have a lot of stubborn traits i myself wish i didnt have but do. No reason we cant try to find ways to expunge these traits. Nothings impossible. We can do anything, create anything, why cant we get rid of negative human emotions? And im not talking pills or science experiments. Im talking about actually finding the causes of such things, and educate the human mind on how to counteract it.

And i gotta agree with Taxi a wee bit tho, gods do kinda hold us back due to the fact that a lot of people (disregarding some actual things we truly shouldnt do) dont do things because they think they're god will be angered.

And to this i am talking about a textbook catholic. Meaning the men on the tv is the devil, etc. I dont want to hear that shit. Book burnings? Cmon man thats uneeded bs. Those are the people i believe he was targeting.

I have nothing on the christian religion even though i dont believe in it. It's just the way people act, or try to shove it down your throat. To my grandmother for instance, if your gay, worship another god etc, she will not talk to you, or hear anything you have to say.

Sorry grandma but your a biggot, a kind old lady, but a narrow minded biggot.
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Kiyoshi
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Re: The Venus Project

Post by Kiyoshi » Thu May 19, 2011 9:10 pm

Fonzie wrote: Kiyoshi for once in our many disputes i agree with you, but sadly my eyes and thoughts dont allow me to see any good in a lot of people. I agree it shouldn't be black and white, but so far thats all im seeing. Eventually everyone who makes money just wants more money. And that is true bro.
At this point, you're making your personal problem and that is not what you should be doing. You solely do not speak for everyone. Just as you can say you only see black and white, I can say proudly that I only see gray. That is not an argument.
Fonzie wrote: It's not rebellion though my brother, its revolution.
Name one "Revolution" that didn't involve the deaths of fellow brothers.
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Fonzeh
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Re: The Venus Project

Post by Fonzeh » Thu May 19, 2011 9:14 pm

Kiyoshi wrote: Name one "Revolution" that didn't involve the deaths of fellow brothers.
If it actually made a difference like back in the sixties, i would gladly give my life for those who dont have nothing to give.

And idk if you've read all my posts but this thread isnt an argument, it's a discussion on the human mind and the people who control what we see and what we can do.
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Kiyoshi
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Re: The Venus Project

Post by Kiyoshi » Thu May 19, 2011 9:21 pm

Definition of ARGUMENT

1
obsolete : an outward sign : indication
2
a : a reason given in proof or rebuttal


If you're going to discuss, I am going to ask for proof and question you. It's part of the discussion.
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Fonzeh
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Re: The Venus Project

Post by Fonzeh » Thu May 19, 2011 9:24 pm

aye, but i am not the one to be questioned, all i did was make a thread stating shit wasnt cool. And supported a link to a possible futuristic outcome, that is if they werent dead set on making another movie >>
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Kiyoshi
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Re: The Venus Project

Post by Kiyoshi » Thu May 19, 2011 9:29 pm

Fonzie wrote:aye, but i am not the one to be questioned, all i did was make a thread stating shit wasnt cool. And supported a link to a possible futuristic outcome, that is if they werent dead set on making another movie >>
Your face when all they do is rehash the same movie over and over O_O
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Fonzeh
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Re: The Venus Project

Post by Fonzeh » Thu May 19, 2011 9:36 pm

your face when i dont doubt it
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Kiyoshi
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Re: The Venus Project

Post by Kiyoshi » Thu May 19, 2011 9:41 pm

Fonzie wrote:your face when i dont doubt it
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