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The Solution to "the forum mentality"
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:47 pm
by Sparky
Premise: Discussions should promote creativity which results in development.
Problem: There is too much heated argument where people disregard entire ideas and plans and projects despite their potential.
Proposal: You don't build a house by tearing down every wall as soon as it is erected because it does not constitute a room. Don't argue with people's ideas; rather, use them and add to them.
Re: The Solution to "the forum mentality"
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:28 pm
by Sven
And what if the room is built on poor foundations? Should we continue to build the house? Or should we hold fast with the home we have already built for ourselves?
Re: The Solution to "the forum mentality"
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:40 pm
by Modzy
Sometimes minor earthquakes can cause cracks in foundation, especially in earthquake-prone areas like California. It's important to keep a disaster readiness kit in case of large earthquakes in these areas as well.
You can purchase pre-made kits at sites like Amazon (
http://www.amazon.com/Earthquake-Person ... B003L2E7IA)
Or you can make your own. Here is a website with some instructions on making yourself an earthquake kit:
http://www.totallyunprepared.com/make-a ... hquake-ki/
Re: The Solution to "the forum mentality"
Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:20 am
by Sparky
The Diarrhea Diaries wrote:Holla! My name is Johnathan Fahgetaboutit Mcbejinglesburg-Schwartzkian. But you can call me John.
Sometimes, when I get pulled over, the officer lets me off the hook, muttering "he's suffered enough". I wonder what that could mean?
Re: The Solution to "the forum mentality"
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:58 am
by Sparky
Sparky wrote:You don't build a house by tearing down every wall as soon as it is erected because it does not constitute a room. Don't argue with people's ideas; rather, use them and add to them.
To argue is verbal violence, and to argue heatedly (in anger) is verbal war. In verbal warfare, ideas are killed despite their potential; in physical warfare, lives are killed despite their potential.
Re: The Solution to "the forum mentality"
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:14 am
by nil
Ideas by themselves are hardly worth anything. Unless the idea can be shown effectively, it's almost meaningless.
Criticism and feedback are very important tools in helping solve problems. If one can't handle criticism, then he will most likely not get far anyway. It's as if you are saying that arguing is bad; it's not.
Re: The Solution to "the forum mentality"
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:22 pm
by Sparky
Argument reveals that you have not understood the other person's perspective or the merits to what they have said, while debate means that you are weighing the pros and cons of a specific proposal, the proposed suggestion, considering the value of the idea. But in order to consider the value of the proposal, you should first consider the premise and the problem that the person has presented. Then instead of arguing, offer additional suggestions and ideas based upon that premise in order to offer alternative proposals to solve the problem.
This is how you stay on topic and show respect for other members... and for the premises of their ideas.
Re: The Solution to "the forum mentality"
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:53 am
by Sven
Sparky wrote:Argument reveals that you have not understood the other person's perspective or the merits to what they have said, while debate means that you are weighing the pros and cons of a specific proposal, the proposed suggestion, considering the value of the idea. But in order to consider the value of the proposal, you should first consider the premise and the problem that the person has presented. Then instead of arguing, offer additional suggestions and ideas based upon that premise in order to offer alternative proposals to solve the problem.
This is how you stay on topic and show respect for other members... and for the premises of their ideas.
...must... resist... urge... to contradict...
Re: The Solution to "the forum mentality"
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:17 am
by nil
Sparky wrote:Argument reveals that you have not understood the other person's perspective or the merits to what they have said, while debate means that you are weighing the pros and cons of a specific proposal, the proposed suggestion, considering the value of the idea. But in order to consider the value of the proposal, you should first consider the premise and the problem that the person has presented. Then instead of arguing, offer additional suggestions and ideas based upon that premise in order to offer alternative proposals to solve the problem.
This is how you stay on topic and show respect for other members... and for the premises of their ideas.
Apple's dictionary: arguing: "give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view"
Arguing does not necessarily mean you do not understand the other person's perspective. Let's hope it doesn't. However, if something does have little worth, it is a flaw and possibly dangerous to not point it out and give it more attention than it deserves. Then again, an idea by itself is not worth much.
Re: The Solution to "the forum mentality"
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:35 pm
by Sparky
I think of "argue" as meaning to reject and refute. Such negativity as adamant verbal response has no place in discourse because it does not reflect an understanding based upon consideration, nor does it present any valid basis for continuing to discuss that topic -- it both contributes nothing to the discussion and trolls (stifles) the topic, discouraging further insightful discussion.
Re: The Solution to "the forum mentality"
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:19 pm
by nil
Sparky wrote:I think of "argue" as meaning to reject and refute. Such negativity as adamant verbal response has no place in discourse because it does not reflect an understanding based upon consideration, nor does it present any valid basis for continuing to discuss that topic -- it both contributes nothing to the discussion and trolls (stifles) the topic, discouraging further insightful discussion.
The way I see it.
I either:
1) Accept in most aspects, offer some insight if possible (may not be able to think of anything)
2) Accept in some aspects, but reject in other aspects (doesn't have to be 50% even), so I can offer some insight
3) Reject in most aspects, giving reasons as to why I think this way. Not doing this can be dangerous.
If an idea is so ridiculous and unbelievable, it is ridiculous to expect that someone will not doubt it. It is even worse if no one comes out and does go against it.
Re: The Solution to "the forum mentality"
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:14 pm
by Dirk Gently
Sparky wrote:Premise: Discussions should promote creativity which results in development.
Problem: There is too much heated argument where people disregard entire ideas and plans and projects despite their potential.
Proposal: You don't build a house by tearing down every wall as soon as it is erected because it does not constitute a room. Don't argue with people's ideas; rather, use them and add to them.
I would like to offer a counter proposal:
I agree with the aforementioned proposal in theory would like to see it in practice. My only question to the creator of this proposal is to look at any matter in question from two sides. For example, while a particular post may come off as an attempt at an argument or as a verbal attack, however the poster may have meant it in a spirit of inquiry rather than in hostility. As an observer, I often see cases where posts are made that seem to be rather hostile and only progress to be worse as the thread continues. Other cases have happened where the poster was questioned and proceeds to shut down or ignore any questions pertaining to the thread. This is not in the spirit of friendly discussion, and is also making this overall problem worse. Instead of looking at posts that have an opposing opinion as hostile, we look at this in a manner of someone without knowledge of how anything they are posting on is envisioned to be created or meant. This way we approach seemly hostile posts as posts of ignorant inquiry. While some posts are hostile, I think it would be better to adopt a policy of caution before jumping on someone as openly hostile.
Re: The Solution to "the forum mentality"
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:54 pm
by Sparky
Dirk, it seems like you and I are approaching this from two different perspectives, because my proposal is
for the listener while your proposal
reminds the speaker how to behave in the face of the listener's responses.
Sparky wrote:Dirk, it seems like you and I are approaching this from two different perspectives, because my proposal is for the listener while your proposal reminds the speaker how to behave in the face of the listener's responses.
And here is an example of my agreeing with your proposal that could be misconstrued as a disagreement. This question of how much needs to be specified is related to when God said, "Do not my words do good to him whose way is upright?"
Re: The Solution to "the forum mentality"
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:15 am
by Dirk Gently
Indeed, this is my point exactly. I think any proposal we make on the listener of the conversations should also apply to the speaker.
Re: The Solution to "the forum mentality"
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:57 pm
by Sparky
This topic came to mind again (it's March 22, 2013 now) and my train of thought was as such:
Insults are against the forum rules.
Insults = Offending
Thus, you should take care not to offend people just as you take care not to insult them.
Adopting a positive demeanor and supportive attitude is what I have proposed. You can disagree or agree with someone while still maintaining your demeanor and attitude; but it is the positivity and supportiveness that should reflect in what you say.
Here then is an example of both agreement and disagreement, where you can see that they are separate from the forum rules as I'm saying:
Offensive, Negative
Agreement -- "Of course, I'm not stupid, everyone knows that, don't treat me like I'm a noob."
Disagreement -- "No, that's a stupid idea, you're wrong and what you have said is completely worthless."
Supportive, Positive
Agreement -- "I agree, I like that idea, and furthermore..."
Disagreement -- "The solution could be more effective, I like the premise but I would change the idea so that..., The problem you say has the following solution instead..."