Blaise Pascal and his intelligence.

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rEsTnPeAcEz
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Blaise Pascal and his intelligence.

Post by rEsTnPeAcEz » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:46 am

You guys know Blaise Pascal, a 17th century French mathematician, physicist, inventor, writer and a Christian philosopher? He was also involved in developing the theory of probability.

He later on got converted to Christianity at 1954 and he had a famous wager:
(1) If you believe in god and god doesn't exist, you lose nothing.
(2) If you believe in god and god does exist, you gain everything.
(3) If you disbelieve in god and god doesn't exist, you gain nothing.
(4) If you disbelieve in god and god does exist, you lose everything.
How should you bet?

According to Pascal: Regardless of whether or not god exists, if you fail to accept god's existence you either gain nothing or lose everything, so you should accept the existence of god because that is the ONLY way to get a payoff.

This is referring to the God of Adam and Abraham; "the Christian God", but what about Allah, for Islam, and other gods.
Simply because in the Bible predicted the future of the coming of Christ and it actually happened like it was supposed to.

Read Daniel 9:25, 26 and Isaiah 53 and then Matthew, in the Bible.

http://aintnogod.com/ipb/topic/3743-nov ... istianity/

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Re: Blaise Pascal and his intelligence.

Post by Tucker933 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:29 am

(4) If you disbelieve in god and god does exist, you lose everything.
I would rather suffer for believing in the rational, than the irrational. A world based on religion is of no interest to me, especially if you're punished for having the wrong entirely inconsequential opinion. What should it matter if you believe there's a magical fairy in the sky or not? It doesn't have anything to do with you.

Almost all of the best people I know should be going to "hell" according to some vague book written by man thousands of years ago, because they don't believe in a specific brand of fairy. If that's true, what interest should I have in joining the arrogant and ignorant zealots of the world? A world defined by the majority of religious teachings is a very broken one, an oppressed one.

A point that you should understand is, religious beliefs and being a good person are hardly related. Doing the right thing out of fear of punishment is entirely selfish, and not at all what it means to be a good person. You do what is right, because it is right, because it is how you feel people should be treated as a whole, including yourself. You make these decisions, not some book or fairy. Grow up and think for yourself, don't just parrot what you've heard because its comforting to you.

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Re: Blaise Pascal and his intelligence.

Post by TaxiService » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:09 am

PREMISE: I am sorry about writing such lengthy posts. :( I know i should stop. I'll try to include TL;DRs in these posts.
>implying you won't mark as read


>(1) If you believe in god and god doesn't exist, you lose nothing.

Uhh actually... look at Sparky. It looks to me that he lost his mind?

You see, the point is that to believe some things about religions you've got to rationalize some things that are not rational.
As i've said 1000 times already, to me it is not rational to think that the universe has been "created".

The whole concept of "good" and "evil" is even completely arbitrary. Is it wrong to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving children? Is it right not to use condoms because some tool wrote in a book that sex should only be done to procreate, while being against the human nature not to fuck all the time and also spreading STDs? There is no "right" or "wrong". Everything must be viewed in its own context.

If you believe in god and god doesn't exist, you'll lose your mind trying to follow some obsolete (or just stupid) pseudo-universal laws that were written a long time ago for some reason.

Look at how jews don't eat pork meat. They believed that it was impure or something because when they used to eat it in the desert or wherever the fuck they were they'd get sick. It's simply because pork meat expires very quickly, especially in hot environments, so in the end (since the "pork meat is evil" was the only answer they could think of at the time) it was a good thing!
But there is no reason at all not to eat pork meat right now in 20-fucking-13. : \ Yet they still follow this obsolete law because they're a bunch of faithful cretins!

Why should you not eat pork meat 3000+ years ago? because it gets bad quick!
Why shouldn't you eat pork meat right now, if properly treated? no reason!

So yeah, if you believe in the jewish god and he doesn't exist, you lose pork meat. : \ And a lot of other things! Every single one of these religions has some retarded law preventing believers to do some stuff. What about sex?!! Sex is wrong according to christianity, because it's an earthly pleasure, right?

Like, the whole christian thing says that you've basically gotta live a life of suffering so that you'll be granted eternal life after death.
Well, that's like the biggest hoax ever, man!!! The sooner you realize that this is the only life you've got, the better!!!
After death there is nothing, silly! All those circular fallacies you believe in are made so that, no matter what i say, there's always a shitty irrational explanation on why i'm incorrect. But holy shit dude, all those things are incorrect!!!!!!! I am only working with logic, you are working with a logic that comes out of a book that has no friggin' proof about it whatsoever!!!



>You do what is right, because it is right, because it is how you feel people should be treated as a whole, including yourself.

Also this. I don't need to believe in any of that crap to treat other people with respect and conduct a life in the name of fairness.
I am not greedy, I always try to help people in the best way i can, I consider other points of view and try to understand contexts when i'm arguing with someone instead of mindlessly sticking on my position, I don't take pleasure in hurting others at all and, instead, am pretty emphatic i think? And, like, i don't believe in any gods.


>Grow up and think for yourself, don't just parrot what you've heard because its comforting to you.

Thisssssssss. ...think for yourself, dammit! Forget all you've been taught by your parents, teachers, friends and whatever and just TRY to re-think everything from the beginning.
Act like a scientist. Perform experiments. Get results. Form theses. Repeat.
The whole "have faith" thing is just a goddamned excuse, don't you see?! It *is* comforting to believe we're all part of a design, but you're just deluding yourself into thinking you're more than you really are. : \ If you wanna do that, fine! Personally, i think it's retarded. And since i want to be a good-thinking, functioning and non-deluded person, i won't have any of this shit; thank you.



TL;DR: (1) is false because (e.g.) jews can't eat pork; afterlife is a hoax; all you need is a sensible mind to act fairly, not silly deities and fear; forget all you know and re-think everything from the beginning using only provable logic, then we'll talk again.
  • TaxiService! Shitposting since 2007!
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Re: Blaise Pascal and his intelligence.

Post by rEsTnPeAcEz » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:09 am

TaxiService wrote:So yeah, if you believe in the jewish god and he doesn't exist, you lose pork meat. : \ And a lot of other things! Every single one of these religions has some retarded law preventing believers to do some stuff. What about sex?!! Sex is wrong according to christianity, because it's an earthly pleasure, right?
What about going to hell instead of heaven and losing everything. If you lose pork meat when you are living your one life on earth that is really short, that is like nothing. If you decide that you don't want to lose pork meat and not believe in God and he does exist then you will spend eternity in the lake of fire, hell. Anyway you can eat pork meat still, because you don't have to follow the Old Testament laws because Jesus died on the cross for us and he did actually die and lived on earth that is true.
God could have shown himself to humanity so we can believe that he exists, but he does not because we need faith.
If you believe in God, and God does exist then you gain everything.
You don't have to follow the Old Testament laws, you just have to believe that Jesus died on the cross to take away the sins of the world and resurrected, simple as that. So your life won't be horrible. Jesus will be with you if you just ask him! No more sin, no more trouble, no more problems, you can have a good life on earth. But do you want a good eternal life in Heaven?

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Re: Blaise Pascal and his intelligence.

Post by WaeV » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:02 am

Because of the multitude of possible religions, if any faith is as likely as the other, the probability of the christian being right is P=1/n where n is the number of possible faiths. If we assume that there is an infinite amount of possible gods (i.e. ideas of gods), the probability of you being right is infinitely small.

Because Pascal's wager fails to tell us which god is likely to be the right one, you have a great probability that you picked the wrong religion and go to some other religion's version of hell. This is referred to as the "avoiding the wrong hell problem"

http://www.update.uu.se/~fbendz/nogod/pascal.htm

Pascal's wager has been refuted by many people. But that doesn't make Christianity, agnosticism, or any other personal belief more or less valid, it just means that Pascal's Wager doesn't work as an argument.
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Re: Blaise Pascal and his intelligence.

Post by rEsTnPeAcEz » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:36 am

Remember when I said this:
rEsTnPeAcEz wrote:This is referring to the God of Adam and Abraham; "the Christian God", but what about Allah, for Islam, and other gods.
Simply because in the Bible predicted the future of the coming of Christ and it actually happened like it was supposed to.

Read Daniel 9:25, 26 and Isaiah 53 and then Matthew, in the Bible.
Christianity is the only religion that predicted something to happen and it actually happen, so Christianity is the true religion. Judaism predicted the coming of Jesus Christ, but in their holy book it doesn't say about the actual coming of Jesus, because they didn't believe in it.
Christianity does though. And Jesus was a real man, and if God does exist, then he resurrected and he is the Son of God.

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Re: Blaise Pascal and his intelligence.

Post by WaeV » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:36 pm

Okay, so that's two world religions down, several hundred to go.

How about Buddhism?
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Re: Blaise Pascal and his intelligence.

Post by rEsTnPeAcEz » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:04 pm

Only Christianity is the true religion, as I said before, it predicted the future, no other religion did that.

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Re: Blaise Pascal and his intelligence.

Post by WaeV » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:55 pm

K
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Re: Blaise Pascal and his intelligence.

Post by Sven » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:03 am

rEsTnPeAcEz wrote:Only Christianity is the true religion, as I said before, it predicted the future, no other religion did that.
Done. So done. Soooo done. donedonedonedone.

What part of this are you not getting? Both of you. Honestly, it's like talking to a fencepost.
'Truth' is not the procedural victimisation of everyone who is not a white man for the past ~1500 years.
'Truth' is not the incessant, mindless worship of a contradictory piece of trash written by angry, sexist, bigoted nomads 2000 years ago then popularised.
'Truth' is not continually denying any form of logical reasoning in favour of 'faith'.
'Truth' is not forcing everyone with even a slightly different form of view to conform to yours. Sure, they reject you.

OBVIOUSLY HAS TO BE BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND!

RIGHT?

Not because they've fucking thought for themselves for once, denied what their parents, pastor and neighbours have shat into their ears their entire lives.

Sure, at one point christianity may have revolved around the idea of kindess. Love thy neughbour, do not covet his wife or his possessions etc fucking etc. But even then it was full of stupidity, contradictions and general illogical bullshit.

The truth about that blemish on human society that you call a religion is that it has always, always existed to justify oppression. Nothing more, nothing less. It existed to control the masses of previously uninformed people. It existed to 'strike fear into the hearts of non believers'. Fear? Or the dagger of another angry, stupid peasant with nothing to lose because his master told him it was alright.
So now, with the development of free journalism and the myriad of ways to distribute it your poxy religion is in decline. Am I surprised? Not even slightly.
Modern christianity is a fucking joke, used solely to justify stupid decisions, deny civil rights to those who deserve it because the aging senator is uncomfortable with the idea of two men kissing, and hoard money and power. (The Vatican.)

So you'll quote bible verses.
You'll try to scare us with your ridiculous preconceptions of fire and brimstone.
But you know what?
It will never, ever, work again.
Not on the informed.

And so, I give you both a challenge. Try to convince me to join your religion, but try to imagine that I have never heard of it in the past. I don't know what 'sin' is.
What's a 'Jesus?'
I don't know any 'God's around here. Have you tried upstate?
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Re: Blaise Pascal and his intelligence.

Post by rEsTnPeAcEz » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:39 am

Sven wrote:
rEsTnPeAcEz wrote:Only Christianity is the true religion, as I said before, it predicted the future, no other religion did that.
Done. So done. Soooo done. donedonedonedone.

What part of this are you not getting? Both of you. Honestly, it's like talking to a fencepost.
'Truth' is not the procedural victimisation of everyone who is not a white man for the past ~1500 years.
'Truth' is not the incessant, mindless worship of a contradictory piece of trash written by angry, sexist, bigoted nomads 2000 years ago then popularised.
'Truth' is not continually denying any form of logical reasoning in favour of 'faith'.
'Truth' is not forcing everyone with even a slightly different form of view to conform to yours. Sure, they reject you.

OBVIOUSLY HAS TO BE BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND!

RIGHT?

Not because they've fucking thought for themselves for once, denied what their parents, pastor and neighbours have shat into their ears their entire lives.

Sure, at one point christianity may have revolved around the idea of kindess. Love thy neughbour, do not covet his wife or his possessions etc fucking etc. But even then it was full of stupidity, contradictions and general illogical bullshit.

The truth about that blemish on human society that you call a religion is that it has always, always existed to justify oppression. Nothing more, nothing less. It existed to control the masses of previously uninformed people. It existed to 'strike fear into the hearts of non believers'. Fear? Or the dagger of another angry, stupid peasant with nothing to lose because his master told him it was alright.
So now, with the development of free journalism and the myriad of ways to distribute it your poxy religion is in decline. Am I surprised? Not even slightly.
Modern christianity is a fucking joke, used solely to justify stupid decisions, deny civil rights to those who deserve it because the aging senator is uncomfortable with the idea of two men kissing, and hoard money and power. (The Vatican.)

So you'll quote bible verses.
You'll try to scare us with your ridiculous preconceptions of fire and brimstone.
But you know what?
It will never, ever, work again.
Not on the informed.

And so, I give you both a challenge. Try to convince me to join your religion, but try to imagine that I have never heard of it in the past. I don't know what 'sin' is.
What's a 'Jesus?'
I don't know any 'God's around here. Have you tried upstate?
Truth is only with Jesus, because Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. You can only get to God through him. You should be scared with God because He is God, but don't be scared with Satan, because you are more powerful then him but only if we have God.
Sin is something we were all born with. Everyone sins, except God, he cannot sin, he is omnipresent, all powerful, unchanging. Why do people say if what or who created God. The answer is nothing, God was there from the beginning and will be here forever and ever. If someone or something created God then you can't call God God. But we call God God because he is God.

The only reason God wants us to love people is because He first loved us. Then people will ask the question:
If God is loving then why does evil exist? Evil doesn't exist. Evil is just the absence of God. What about darkness? Darkness is just the absence of light. If you check the RGB value for black it is 0, 0, 0, right? What about white? It is 255, 255, 255, right? So it is the absence of light.
Stop doubting and start believing!

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Re: Blaise Pascal and his intelligence.

Post by Sven » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:14 am

rEsTnPeAcEz wrote:
Truth is only with Jesus, because Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. You can only get to God through him. You should be scared with God because He is God, but don't be scared with Satan, because you are more powerful then him but only if we have God.
Sin is something we were all born with. Everyone sins, except God, he cannot sin, he is omnipresent, all powerful, unchanging. Why do people say if what or who created God. The answer is nothing, God was there from the beginning and will be here forever and ever. If someone or something created God then you can't call God God. But we call God God because he is God.

The only reason God wants us to love people is because He first loved us. Then people will ask the question:
If God is loving then why does evil exist? Evil doesn't exist. Evil is just the absence of God. What about darkness? Darkness is just the absence of light. If you check the RGB value for black it is 0, 0, 0, right? What about white? It is 255, 255, 255, right? So it is the absence of light.
Stop doubting and start believing!
Who's Jesus? Sounds spanish.

Is it like 'jee-zus' or 'heeesus'. You know how spanish pronunciation is.

/outofcharacter

Since you seem incapable of taking up a challenge, I'll level with you.

You are just spouting absolute bullshit.

/backincharacter

So why should I believe in 'god'? And who is this satan fellow? I don't see why I should believe what you say when you don't support it with evidence.
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Re: Blaise Pascal and his intelligence.

Post by Dead Site » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:34 am

/thread

there need to be more mods for bl2 which aren't cheats or nude mods
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Re: Blaise Pascal and his intelligence.

Post by Devious » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:53 pm

Christian God and Islamic God are one and the same.
The armaments which thunderstrike the walls
And monarchs tremble in their capitals.
The oak leviathans, whose huge ribs make
Of lord of thee, and arbiter of war;
Alike the Armada's pride, or spoils of Trafalgar.

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Re: Blaise Pascal and his intelligence.

Post by Sparky » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:28 am

RIPz, don't worry about the people who say that God does not exist. Truly, nobody can know the Truth -- Jesus Christ is the Truth and the only begotten Son of God -- unless the God of Truth enables them.

Those who deny that God exists are flawed in all they say and do; they will perish, and as God said, "not a root or a branch will be left to them". Nothing they based their lives upon (roots) or did in their lives (branches) will remain -- it will all be destroyed by God on the Last Day. These people will never understand because they willfully deny themselves comprehension when they refuse to accept God's Word which is THE TRUTH HIMSELF.

These people do not realize anything about reality, they know neither the Creator nor his words or deeds, for they are willfully ignorant and completely blinded by self-righteous arrogance. They say, "there is no god", because their pride and arrogance does not allow room in their hearts to seek the truth of any matter besides what they stubbornly disbelieve. They actually cannot believe the truth, and for the simple fact that it is the truth they are unable to accept it. Their ways are doomed and only God's Mercy, Jesus Christ, can save them. But as Jesus Christ said, "everyone who belongs to God hears what God says."

Truly, no miracle will change these people's minds. Seeing someone rise from the dead will not change their mind. Defeating them in reason and logic (which is so easy to do since they deny anything true to begin with) will only cause them to become violent and exhibit that same hatred and arrogance and pride which prevents them from gaining any understanding about ... well, about anything. They are doomed to fail, and you don't have to waste your time talking with them.

Instead, pray for them and trust in God, and go help people who are actually cognizant of the God in whose reality we all exist.
Either you are groping for answers, or you are asking God and listening to Jesus.

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