[WIP] Zeus: Pre-alpha 1 release

[Mgalekgolo]

hey sparky, when do you think tool will be implemented into zeus?

EDIT: nvm you probably dont have it all planed out yet

[002]

Sparky Make Tiger version D:

Zanghfei, Apple has completely dropped Tiger. When programming for Mac OS X, it's not the developer's fault that an application works or does not work with obsolete operating systems. You cannot make something suddenly "work with Tiger". I can't believe that people still use Tiger.

What I'm saying is that most new applications will not work with Tiger. Upgrade or buy a new Macintosh. It's worth the cost.

[Zanghfei]

@002
I didn't know Apple Dropped tiger o_o.
And i don't have money on my hand, so I have no time or free time to buy new upgraded Leopard D;.

[Sparky]

I suppose that's what Universal Binaries are for. Zeus won't do anything computationally-insane, so there shouldn't be an issue, like having it only run on 64-bit Intel macs.

[(KHC) Shadow]

Ya you shouldn't really need to use any 10.5+ specific features. My only question to you is how you're gonna figure out how to compile all of the tags. There is no source code or documentation on how HEK does it :-/

[nil]

Apple hasn't "dropped" Tiger. When you install the developer tools, you'll have an option to install the 10.4 SDK, though it's optional and turned off by default, of course. It's actually quite sane to target 10.5+ these days, many things are available in 10.5 which aren't in 10.4 and aside from this MGM community, no one really even uses 10.4 anymore. Also, you'll have no chance of building a 64-bit app if you still want to support Tiger, so of course, it's not recommended. Rule of thumb basically: it's only sane supporting the latest OS and the OS version before it, and supporting even one version back can be a headache in any complex project.

[Sparky]

About Map-Making Techniques

Honestly, map cache file "compiling" (as far as the HEK method is used) was not something I considered including. I have all the starting and ending products, in case I need to figure out how it's done, though. There are also a few people I can consult in case I have any questions about this, too.

I am envisioning other methods for making new maps and tags than those used by the Halo CE community at this time.

For example, I have plenty of examples of map files, and I have the outlines to what is probably at least 90% of their structure. Now it is simply a matter of knowing which data to put where and what to update when. This might sound shifty, but what I mean is that with Halo Demo maps, for example, I know which headers to use and which data to update and where all the appropriate data should fit; and support for new game versions like Halo 3 will require similar work to what we have already done with Halo Demo, so I know pretty much exactly all that I need to know at this point to move forward.

The path to run seems pretty straight at the moment; I know what I need to figure out and I know how to figure it out, and I have all the resources at my disposal to figure it out. (I suppose the question is, how long will it take me to figure out what I still need to know?) I'm pretty sure that I'm 90% through the game of research, when it comes to support for Halo Demo / Trial / Full. It may take me another month or so to include support for Halo CE, but we already have some programmers here who understand what is going on with Halo CE tags.

About the Incyclopedia

So in the end, you will be able to download CE tags directly from the INCY Online or HaloMaps.org and import them into your demo maps. Whether or not you will use this feature will be up to you, but I'm saying Zeus will eventually let you do this very easily. My hunch right now is that I will be working on the INCY Online simultaneously while developing Zeus.

The INCY Online will be an online library (I'm tired of using the word "database"!) of all the tags ever published for Halo. This sounds pretty impressive, doesn't it? Organization will be key.

Since tag directory structures are essentially no longer significant to anyone who is only modifying the map files (with Eschaton or Zeus), rather than "building" new map files out of a directory of tags with Tool using the Halo Editing Kit, we can change tag names and paths as we please. Nevertheless, even though we can safely change the tag names, the premise for the INCY is that it is for archival and organizational purposes, so accuracy is important. Integrity to the original tag authors is of most importance. But there is a catch: many tag authors release tags with incomplete or broken references and tag path names. For example, an author might release a weapon tag that references a light volume tag that he never included with his release. What do we do in this case? Well, if you're me, you spend countless hours fixing references and painstakingly scouring the internet for tags that should exist but don't. I did that with the .map versions of the INCY that included all the Halo CE tags published at HaloMaps.org. That was a freakin' pain, to say the least, and I'm sure it's just as painful to anyone else who downloads tags in bulk from that site.

Basically, the organization can be a nightmare when people don't use a central repository and a single required format for their releases. The INCY Online provides these two things: it is a single location where you upload tags, and it keeps track of all the existing tags and lets you download them again (recursively or non-recursively) with ease directly into Zeus, where you can rename the tags, modify them, and then re-upload them. Since a description comes with each tag, you can give credit where due and describe each tag you uploaded to the modder who is browsing the library. You can even include a screenshot of the tag as it appears in-game! The INCY Online will really be publishing a tag in an online tag library.

Tag names will be organized as follows:

<community name, abbreviated> \ <modder name> \ <project or mod name> \ <level 1> \ <level 2> \ ...

Here are some examples:

(for the original tags from Halo Full, we'll simplify the first directory names to "Bungie\Halo\<map name>")

Bungie\Halo\a10\characters\captain\bitmaps\capn_patches_decal (this is the first bitmap tag, alphabetically, in the first level of Halo Full)
Bungie\Halo\a10\levels\a10\devices\chairs\chair pilot\chair pilot (this is a vehicle used in the first level of Halo Full; notice how the 'a10' part is redundant now, too bad)

'HM' = HaloMaps.org
'MGM' = MacGamingMods.com (we'll use this instead of 'HDM' for HaloDemoMods.com, since the two are partner sites)
(other community titles will be abbreviated appropriately)

HM\CMT\Halo2\weapons\smg_silenced (this example is not accurate to the original tag directory released for this weapon's tags, but it is now mostly accurate to the INCY Online's naming convention standards)
MGM\TaxiService\Tags\Weapons\Carrot Launcher (this tag was released as an individual tag and not as part of a mod, so it might get placed in the "Tags" subdirectory)
MGM\Sparky\Weapons Evolved\Weapons\Nuclear Device (this tag was released in the mod "Weapons Evolved"; the mod's version is not included, because subsequent versions of the mod replaced their old counterparts)

I hope these examples proved to be helpful in illustrating the naming conventions I envision for the Incyclopedia Online.

EDIT: Now here is the trick. If I can release Zeus for both OS X and Windows platforms, then this application will help to weld the several fragmented Halo communities, including the Halo 1 Mac, Halo 1 PC, Halo CE, Halo 2 Vista, Halo 2 Xbox, and Halo 1 Xbox modding communities. Can you see how this might come to pass, and be extraordinarily beneficial? Zeus will be open source, of course, and this will only expedite support for games like Halo 3 (although they have Forge, so...)

[Moxus]

Erm, completely off topic, but why is encyclopedia still spelled wrong? Every time I look at it I can't help but see the spelling mistake.

[Smythe]

EDIT: Now here is the trick. If I can release Zeus for both OS X and Windows platforms, then this application will help to weld the several fragmented Halo communities, including the Halo 1 Mac, Halo 1 PC, Halo CE, Halo 2 Vista, Halo 2 Xbox, and Halo 1 Xbox modding communities. Can you see how this might come to pass, and be extraordinarily beneficial? Zeus will be open source, of course, and this will only expedite support for games like Halo 3 (although they have Forge, so...)

Never gonna happen, PC's hate mac too much.
forget this bit, when has a windows developer thought "Oh i know! we can be friends and i'll make my app for mac too!"
yeah virtually none.
Stop talking the fiction that this is ever going to happen, because thats what it is.
fiction.

Erm, completely off topic, but why is encyclopedia still spelled wrong? Every time I look at it I can't help but see the spelling mistake.

it's meant to be, In as in Inside while the rest is cyclopedia... nothing special there.
But it means IN as in inside a map, or IN a collection.
something like that.

[Sparky]

The "I" here stands for Import, that's what I had in mind with the name, because it's a collection of tags that can be imported into maps.

Encyclopedia
Incyclopedia

[(KHC) Shadow]

EDIT: Now here is the trick. If I can release Zeus for both OS X and Windows platforms, then this application will help to weld the several fragmented Halo communities, including the Halo 1 Mac, Halo 1 PC, Halo CE, Halo 2 Vista, Halo 2 Xbox, and Halo 1 Xbox modding communities. Can you see how this might come to pass, and be extraordinarily beneficial? Zeus will be open source, of course, and this will only expedite support for games like Halo 3 (although they have Forge, so...)

Never gonna happen, PC's hate mac too much.
forget this bit, when has a windows developer thought "Oh i know! we can be friends and i'll make my app for mac too!"
yeah virtually none.
Stop talking the fiction that this is ever going to happen, because thats what it is.
fiction.

It won't work for windows in the first place since it's written in Objective-C.

[Sparky]

I was speculating, if I wrote it in C++... but I think I'll stick with a Mac app. The PC community doesn't seem to be pining for Prometheus anymore, maybe they're fine with their current tools.

[Samuco]

Just checking in on the forums... Go for it Sparky, no harm in trying
Sounds pretty difficult though. I'm still trying to make CSS scenery. Haven't spent any time on it yet

It won't work for windows in the first place since it's written in Objective-C.

Objective-C works on windows... Google Cocotron. I have been using it for ages, and it's great. Can program for windows straight in XCode with interface builder and everything

[Sparky]

I'm learning OpenGL now so that I can make the scenario editor.

[Sparky]

Just checking in on the forums... Go for it Sparky, no harm in trying
Sounds pretty difficult though. I'm still trying to make CSS scenery. Haven't spent any time on it yet

It won't work for windows in the first place since it's written in Objective-C.

Objective-C works on windows... Google Cocotron. I have been using it for ages, and it's great. Can program for windows straight in XCode with interface builder and everything

I was able to successfully build an application for Windows using that information you provided
So yes, I will be able to make Zeus for Windows also. HOWEVER, I may not want to do this, because it might prove to be too limiting. We'll see, I guess.