HaloMD

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Re: HaloMD

Post by mgalekgolo phone » Thu May 24, 2012 8:52 am

Nil, have you been working on getting AI to sync?

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Re: HaloMD

Post by nil » Thu May 24, 2012 1:27 pm

Sparky wrote:Shaft has invisible barriers also which make it somewhat odd since the player should be able to walk off the platforms in all areas, not just in a small, hidden gap within the invisible walls.
The only invisible barrier I noticed (in Fuel's version) was going up some stairs on one of the sides, which I agree is done poorly. Otherwise, I didn't see anything else.

Sparky, did you look into the Barrier issues, and the starting weapon not being a needler (which you haven't said anything about yet)? Is it possible to "remake" Crossing (will this fix the map?)

Mgalekgolo, I have not looked into AI stuff. Why would I? I am working on completing HaloMD with you guys as soon as possible (hoping before OS X 10.8 comes out, which is very soon). That is my priority. If I look into AI stuff, that would only be distracting.

On another note, I found some people playing yesterday. We filled up the public server with 16 people. The majority of people in the game are from Australia, all from the same school (insane, right?). Sword also joined in the game later and played with us : ).
I am no longer active to Halo or MGM, and don't guarantee a response on the forums or through email. I will however linger around the discord room for general chatting. It's been fun!

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Re: HaloMD

Post by Amy » Thu May 24, 2012 3:29 pm

nil wrote:On second thought about Depot, I think the map is not ready as-is even if it was fixed. The invisible barriers is really confusing and the general layout of the map is confusing.
Major sadface to this comment. :'(.

Also congratz on the 16 player thing, I should monitor MD a bit more to see if games are going on....
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Re: HaloMD

Post by Moxus » Fri May 25, 2012 3:11 am

nil wrote: Is it possible to "remake" Crossing (will this fix the map?)
Just jumped into the topic again - what is it that needs fixing again?

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Re: HaloMD

Post by TaxiService » Fri May 25, 2012 6:20 am

For some reason the console doesn't work properly. Some commands don't function. Do you remember if you have edited anything weird like, i don't know, DeLa tags? Or maybe some hex editing gone wrong?
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Re: HaloMD

Post by nil » Fri May 25, 2012 10:32 am

As an example Moxus, sv_players works fine, but sv_map does not. I sent you the map converted by Taxi using Sparky's BSP via a PM. Aside from Crossing, it'd be nice to get Outpost 49. I think it'd work nicely if you removed the "darkness" feature of the map that relies on having some shaders (the lightmaps?).

I started a wiki page on HaloMD that is linked from HaloMD's help menu. I plan to try adding a message "Having hosting issues?" (or something) if a user tries to host a game and it doesn't go completely through due to NAT/port forwarding issues.

Currently, I may have to distribute a "how to run read me" file along with HaloMD due to 10.8's Gatekeeper not favoring unsigned apps. Basically, this means, if you open HaloMD under 10.8 right now, a window will prompt "This app is not trusted and won't run" (not sure what it exactly says, I made the message up but it's similar), but you can bypass it by control-clicking -> "Open" or by adjusting (or turning off) Gatekeeper settings in System Preferences. In order to sign apps to avoid this issue altogether, someone has to be enrolled in the Mac developer program costing $100/yr, but that may not be a safe bet.

Amy joined us in some games yesterday by the way. It was quite fun : ).
I am no longer active to Halo or MGM, and don't guarantee a response on the forums or through email. I will however linger around the discord room for general chatting. It's been fun!

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Re: HaloMD

Post by Sparky » Fri May 25, 2012 2:32 pm

nil wrote:
Sparky wrote:Shaft has invisible barriers also which make it somewhat odd since the player should be able to walk off the platforms in all areas, not just in a small, hidden gap within the invisible walls.
The only invisible barrier I noticed (in Fuel's version) was going up some stairs on one of the sides, which I agree is done poorly. Otherwise, I didn't see anything else.

Sparky, did you look into the Barrier issues, and the starting weapon not being a needler (which you haven't said anything about yet)? Is it possible to "remake" Crossing (will this fix the map?)

Mgalekgolo, I have not looked into AI stuff. Why would I? I am working on completing HaloMD with you guys as soon as possible (hoping before OS X 10.8 comes out, which is very soon). That is my priority. If I look into AI stuff, that would only be distracting.

On another note, I found some people playing yesterday. We filled up the public server with 16 people. The majority of people in the game are from Australia, all from the same school (insane, right?). Sword also joined in the game later and played with us : ).
Barrier: The KOTH markers I'd like to leave as they are, with just a single hill, since it's pretty much three different areas already at once. I'm being slightly lazy about this also, so if you want more areas, I can add them certainly and it's no problem; it will just take a little bit of time but it's nice practice for me to manually enter these things too, so I don't really mind if you want more hills. The starting weapon I made into a plasma rifle because that was the name of the tag reference in the map. Graveen must have meta swapped the two or perhaps swapped the needler into the plasma rifle itmc. He used some of the older modding techniques such as with Conure's bitmap internalizer, rather than the "neater" methods available since the latest version of Eschaton, where you can even rename tags. I think the mod deserved a remake, so it was a pleasure to do so. Now I can import the scnr data including its scen tags into 3ds max and re-create all these scen-based maps as bsp-based maps. If we have any scen-based mods, I can convert the scen tags into a bsp so it's more friendly with the collision and the engine. This is thanks to Aether which is designed for generating higher-quality lightmaps by importing even the scenery in the scenario into 3ds max... so I would use this method to import entire scen-based maps into 3ds max and touch it up to make it follow the sealed-world rules.

I'm not planning to do any more work on Barrier, though, as it runs very smoothly already and just needs some minor adjustments now, like teleporter locations moved. I can add a needler to it for the starting weapon.

AI synchronization is being tested mostly by Fonzie and me now. I'm currently experimenting with how legit scnr-based AI work in multiplayer maps, and part of that testing is the Rejuvenation B30 map I'm working on. I'm on the AI stage now with that map.
nil wrote:As an example Moxus, sv_players works fine, but sv_map does not. I sent you the map converted by Taxi using Sparky's BSP via a PM. Aside from Crossing, it'd be nice to get Outpost 49. I think it'd work nicely if you removed the "darkness" feature of the map that relies on having some shaders (the lightmaps?).

I started a wiki page on HaloMD that is linked from HaloMD's help menu. I plan to try adding a message "Having hosting issues?" (or something) if a user tries to host a game and it doesn't go completely through due to NAT/port forwarding issues.

Currently, I may have to distribute a "how to run read me" file along with HaloMD due to 10.8's Gatekeeper not favoring unsigned apps. Basically, this means, if you open HaloMD under 10.8 right now, a window will prompt "This app is not trusted and won't run" (not sure what it exactly says, I made the message up but it's similar), but you can bypass it by control-clicking -> "Open" or by adjusting (or turning off) Gatekeeper settings in System Preferences. In order to sign apps to avoid this issue altogether, someone has to be enrolled in the Mac developer program costing $100/yr, but that may not be a safe bet.

Amy joined us in some games yesterday by the way. It was quite fun : ).
There is also information on the "Port Forwarding" wiki page at HDM.

Moxus, I can easily remake Crossing, but so long as the scnr tag is unprotected and not too many engine rules have been broken (such as having >200 netgame flag chunks), I don't even have to remake it since I can extract its existing scnr tag directly. Anyway, you did a nice "clean" job with it in general, nothing too fancy, so it's quite easy for me.

The only mods I have are Barrier, Crossing and Shaft. I don't have the other one. Link me to it, please?
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Re: HaloMD

Post by Dead Site » Fri May 25, 2012 4:55 pm

Sparky wrote:"Port Forwarding"
Had to go through so much trouble doing that since my ISP changed the default router password three times. The paper manual does not update!
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Re: HaloMD

Post by nil » Fri May 25, 2012 5:27 pm

Sparky, the teleportation fixes and needler as startup weapon is all that needs to be done for Barrier. One hill works fine.

I'm aware of the port forwarding page, it is linked on the HaloMD wiki page. The port forwarding page is in some ways wrong or could be improved though, but that can be worked out later.

The other map considered was Depot, (found on HDM) however, after second thinking I think it has some issues. The invisible walls are too confusing until you figure out the map's layout, and it uses a skull as some odd weapon and modifies the damage on a couple of standard weapons.
I am no longer active to Halo or MGM, and don't guarantee a response on the forums or through email. I will however linger around the discord room for general chatting. It's been fun!

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Re: HaloMD

Post by Sparky » Sat May 26, 2012 12:25 pm

http://www.halodemomods.com/mediawiki/i ... Sparky.zip

Check it out because I did more than you would imagine I would do with this map. This is the Halo Custom Edition map version; please convert it yourself to demo and full using Pearl.

As for Crossing, that's easier than pie. But it'll have to wait another day or two, because I already spent all day on this and I have some engagements to attend these next few days.

As for Depot, I have no idea since I've never played it.

As for Shaft, I'd rather just use Rejuvenation B30. Are we allowed to add sniper AI on the cliff walls? (Not really snipers like in Halo 2, but distant AI turrets, because I'm thinking of taking the covenant dropship gunner and putting a couple of those along the cliffsides, kind of reminiscent of turrets on the Death Star in Star Wars. They would be indestructible but their projectiles would be dodgeable.) Also, since the map is larger, can I make the spartan biped speed slightly faster than normal to compensate? Not so much so that weapons like the needler would be rendered ineffective.
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Re: HaloMD

Post by nil » Sat May 26, 2012 1:26 pm

Sparky wrote:http://www.halodemomods.com/mediawiki/i ... Sparky.zip

Check it out because I did more than you would imagine I would do with this map. This is the Halo Custom Edition map version; please convert it yourself to demo and full using Pearl.

As for Crossing, that's easier than pie. But it'll have to wait another day or two, because I already spent all day on this and I have some engagements to attend these next few days.

As for Depot, I have no idea since I've never played it.

As for Shaft, I'd rather just use Rejuvenation B30. Are we allowed to add sniper AI on the cliff walls? (Not really snipers like in Halo 2, but distant AI turrets, because I'm thinking of taking the covenant dropship gunner and putting a couple of those along the cliffsides, kind of reminiscent of turrets on the Death Star in Star Wars. They would be indestructible but their projectiles would be dodgeable.) Also, since the map is larger, can I make the spartan biped speed slightly faster than normal to compensate? Not so much so that weapons like the needler would be rendered ineffective.
The teleporters work much better in Barrier now. However, the only issue left is that when you enter the side teleporters, they push you off to the side a bit.

Looking forward to Crossing (and Outpost too Moxus? ;)).

Shaft is a tricky case. Really, there's not much wrong with the gameplay as is now (Fuel's version). Using the entire B30, is I think too large to play say, CTF on, and I've never been keen on The Island part for real gameplay. I would also not like adding a speed boost; it can mess things up with lag, and should only be modified by certain gametypes. Using AI is probably not a good idea, but maybe doable. AI can only be used as mostly scenery first off. If you want them to attack players, they have to be indestructible, and almost-harmless (again, mostly scenery). And you can't add AI such a way that it lags people's computers, and they need to look somewhat sync-able (can't be like: "how did I get damaged when no one is firing at me?!")

More ideas for thought: you could also just make a Shaft type map modeled after Fuel's, have some teleporters that go outside to The Island for some specific purpose (getting some weaponry, or an alternate pathway perhaps?), and allow you to get back into the shaft. Or you can just have a shaft-type map, with an easter egg not for normal gameplay, that allows you to "get outside."
I am no longer active to Halo or MGM, and don't guarantee a response on the forums or through email. I will however linger around the discord room for general chatting. It's been fun!

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Re: HaloMD

Post by Moxus » Sat May 26, 2012 1:35 pm

TaxiService wrote:For some reason the console doesn't work properly. Some commands don't function. Do you remember if you have edited anything weird like, i don't know, DeLa tags? Or maybe some hex editing gone wrong?
During development, Crossing suffered reoccuring corruptions; no matter what I did, the map would always begin to reject new imports every time I neared completion. At the time, I didn't really think much of it, but it's possible that the bug which prevented importation ran deeper than I thought.

Having said that, I'd be more than happy to make a clean version; with Crossing finalized, I can streamline the development and cut a lot of the crap that's in it now. Moreover, I can always re-make the new version using the Blood Gulch from Full.

Outpost 49 does have a solid layout (I think), and I wouldn't have a problem removing the modded lightmaps (or making them less dark).

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Re: HaloMD

Post by Amy » Sun May 27, 2012 9:29 am

Yeah, the more you duplicate scenery in Swordedit the closer you get to the Importation cutoff glitch. Swordedit likes to slowly eat maps alive...:\. It happened to Depot too which is why I am using a skull instead of an energy sword model xD.
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Re: HaloMD

Post by Sparky » Sun May 27, 2012 2:14 pm

nil wrote:
Sparky wrote:http://www.halodemomods.com/mediawiki/i ... Sparky.zip

Check it out because I did more than you would imagine I would do with this map. This is the Halo Custom Edition map version; please convert it yourself to demo and full using Pearl.

As for Crossing, that's easier than pie. But it'll have to wait another day or two, because I already spent all day on this and I have some engagements to attend these next few days.

As for Depot, I have no idea since I've never played it.

As for Shaft, I'd rather just use Rejuvenation B30. Are we allowed to add sniper AI on the cliff walls? (Not really snipers like in Halo 2, but distant AI turrets, because I'm thinking of taking the covenant dropship gunner and putting a couple of those along the cliffsides, kind of reminiscent of turrets on the Death Star in Star Wars. They would be indestructible but their projectiles would be dodgeable.) Also, since the map is larger, can I make the spartan biped speed slightly faster than normal to compensate? Not so much so that weapons like the needler would be rendered ineffective.
The teleporters work much better in Barrier now. However, the only issue left is that when you enter the side teleporters, they push you off to the side a bit.

If you want them to attack players, they have to be indestructible, and almost-harmless (again, mostly scenery). And you can't add AI such a way that it lags people's computers, and they need to look somewhat sync-able (can't be like: "how did I get damaged when no one is firing at me?!")

More ideas for thought: you could also just make a Shaft type map modeled after Fuel's, have some teleporters that go outside to The Island for some specific purpose (getting some weaponry, or an alternate pathway perhaps?), and allow you to get back into the shaft. Or you can just have a shaft-type map, with an easter egg not for normal gameplay, that allows you to "get outside."
Nice ideas, but there's no point in making an easter egg to go outside when you already are familiar with the way to get outside. All the game's events would be in a single area, so even though you would be able to explore outside, there wouldn't be any point in doing so. But anyway, you know that since I have this level's bsp in 3ds max I can modify it, right? It does take quite some time to export, but I could easily cut in some forerunner-style tunnels to connect various areas... it could be like our own version of Death Island, but with AI in vehicle turrets (synchronized and avoidable, more like animated scenery like you were saying) and otherwise more like the campaign map.

Crossing I think would be very much easier for me to remake, and I can do that today really quickly.

Moxus, you can work on Outpost 49 instead, since it's not corrupted.

Amy, I think Samuco fixed that with swordedit: starlight, but there are limits to the number of chunks for each reference type in the scnr tag... and most of our maps don't approach those limits except for when we add teleporter entrances and exits to the netgame flags chunk. Scenery-based maps don't usually even come close to the scen reference chunk limit. It's the netgame flags with those adding teleporter entrances and exits which probably break most of the maps. You are only supposed to have up to 200 chunks for netgame flags. By building-in that limit into swordedit, this would prevent most maps from being corrupted.

Working on Crossing now, since it's einfach, then back to Rejuvenation B30.

The teleporter exits work as such: you continue moving in the direction you were walking when you go through the exit. That's why, unless you want me to place the teleporter points off to the side, there's no other way to really "fix" moving off to the side when you go through the teleporters in Barrier. I could make a little invisible scenery which blocks you from moving so far off to the side, but that could potentially be discovered by walking in that area... and it's not really worth doing that, kind of cheezy.
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Re: HaloMD

Post by Sparky » Sun May 27, 2012 6:29 pm

I'm done redoing Crossing; it only took about 5 hours of minimal effort.

I wonder if Moxus wants to have an invisible platform that allows access to the banshees? I removed everything that I determined was redundant from the map (things outside the playable area that were not apparently part of the level) and I didn't notice any way to get to the banshees. I did lots of other special things with this mod, like making in 3ds max actual invisible wall tags which can be used in other maps also... and also the globals tag includes every vehicle in the default game. There is also a CE energy sword that I imported from... my stash of released Halo Custom Edition tags from HaloMaps.org. I use the energy sword type 2 rather than type 1 (in case you know what that means), and if you don't want to use the model for it, just expand the map and import the energy sword model and use that instead. But I like it this way better. Anyway, about the vehicles in the globals tag, all you have to do to swap in any vehicle when using this globals tag is to swap that vehicle type into the first 6 vehicle references in the globals tag... the rest are ignored in multiplayer games. But they're all there, so just swap there as normal. The map is about 7 MB larger than it would otherwise be because of all the vehicles, but that's really not prohibitive.

Actually, I just changed my mind. Instead of ~24 MB, I removed all the unused vehicles to bring it down to 11.57 MB. The globals tag only has the three vehicles that are used in the map. The map is about as streamlined as it will get.

Enjoy!
http://www.halodemomods.com/mediawiki/i ... halomd.zip

EDIT: So yes, Moxus, if you would like to, you can use swordedit (starlight, preferably), to duplicate the invisible wall scen chunks and allow access to the banshees. If you do that, please do it with a Full version map so I don't have to demo hack it to full before extracting the new scnr and building the cache file (so yeah, send me the new map if you decide to do that, please).
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