HaloMD

Everything about HD, MD, and their mods.

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nil
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Re: HaloMD

Post by nil » Tue May 29, 2012 6:52 pm

Sparky wrote:Try the updated version here: http://www.halodemomods.com/mediawiki/i ... halomd.zip
It uses SP vehicles still, because I think it makes it more fun to be able to destroy the vehicles. And it still has the H2 energy sword. Taxi, you can change these things if you want.
I redid the icefields bridge and the infinity bases, as you can see in the screenshot below. I also moved the invisible wall to allow access to the banshees by falling over the side of the edges in the middle area behind each base.
The surfaces look a little better (edit: but still need work, need to fix the surface problem I mentioned before, and the sand texture looks odd, and old texture that doesn't look that great is still there). I don't want SP vehicles because I'm playing multiplayer. I don't want a ghost in bloodgulch to work differently than a ghost in any other multiplayer map we bundle. Consistency in multiplayer is important. And I don't want a halo 2 sword (Moxus doesn't either).

The console is still broken though, unfortunately.

Also, putting that invisible platform was a terrible idea. It is an easter egg, it wasn't intended to be easy to get to (that ruins the whole fun). At least figure out how to get there in the original (demo) version first.. (Yes, it is possible, I just don't remember how).
Last edited by nil on Tue May 29, 2012 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HaloMD

Post by Modzy » Tue May 29, 2012 10:09 pm

Getting to the shee on the original was practically half luck, which made is pretty fun.

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Re: HaloMD

Post by Sparky » Wed May 30, 2012 2:22 am

a.k.a. impossible and thus pointless. what about adding invisible platforms around the sides?

the console is broken only for this map? I don't see what could be breaking it.

by "sand texture", do you mean the metal generic shader along the edges that is sort of yellow-brownish? the "old texture" I used because it was most fitting for that spot on the bridge, and I re-UVW'd the entire thing anyway, so it really does look better than it did before. i guess you don't like the metal flat generic ext clean bitmap?
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nil
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Re: HaloMD

Post by nil » Wed May 30, 2012 8:25 am

Stop moving the invisible platform. Revert it to how it originally was. Better for it to be "impossible" than possible. Really, it's probably just that you won't ever figure out the trick.

Yes, that's what I mean by sand texture. It looks out of place. I don't like the bitmap on the "blocks" at the edges (the one that you still preserved, you probably guessed the correct name for it, I have no idea). The surface problem I mentioned a couple of posts ago that Taxi fixed, is still there.

Maybe it's something scenery based causing the console problems? I've no idea. Broken console is kind of a stopper.
[EDIT]: Please try out the console for your self too. Here are two example commands: sv_players and sv_map bloodgulch CTF
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Re: HaloMD

Post by TaxiService » Wed May 30, 2012 9:28 am

Sparky, do you think you could remake the infinity_base scen from scratch? I don't know if it's a time consuming thing to do, but the one moxus used (the only one available) is pretty poor. It is missing some vertices if you notice, and the textures are not like the original bases from infinity or the structures in a30.

If you could, like, just cut out one of these things from a30 or infinity, turn them into scen and paste them back in the map, that'd be a great thing. (the textures on the original bsp structures have more details than the scen version used in crossing)

I'm asking this because i have a feeling that the bases are causing these problems. :-\ i don't recall why i think this, though..!
What could be causing these problems anyway? It has to be some of the scens used! 'cause, like, that's the only things in common between the different map builds!

The scens are
- the infinity base
- the icefields bridge
- those beam_tendrill walls, used as the light bridge between the bases
- hanger_wall (probably the most annoying typo of all the scens i've encountered)
- invisible wall, a scen i'd not even include.

One of these scens must be causing the console problem. If it's none of these, then there's something we're not considering. :-\
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Re: HaloMD

Post by Sparky » Wed May 30, 2012 2:00 pm

Taxi and I are starting to think alike.

Have you looked at the Crossing map I presented in Eschaton? Apparently you have, since you said "infinity_base" rather than "base1" as it was originally called.

I was thinking I should record a movie of myself redoing these maps, but the thing is, it takes many hours straight -- we're talking like 5 or 6 hours of work -- for each one. Crossing was the easier of the two, since I didn't have to develop a macro for copy/pasting its metadata values from the scnr. But I think that everything I've been doing in terms of work on this is just not seen. Suffice it to say I'm a perfectionisht at these things?

The "weird appearance of the floor" is because the bridge's floor to the sides is not flat but curves upwards. This is fixed simply by selecting the faces and aligning them to the camera top view in 3ds max. I wouldn't even need to redo the UVW for them, although I probably would anyway.

Perhaps this issue is related to the vehicle chunk in the scnr, because I noticed that I was having problems getting the usage bitmask flags of the vehicle chunks in the scnr to work properly.
What I can try is to present you with incremental builds of the scnr, adding more and more to it (actually, taking away more and more when starting with the original scnr) and you can determine which build of the map finally doesn't break the console.

I can't try the console since I don't have Pearl 2.0 and I really don't want to have it until Modzy makes the official release of it.
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Re: HaloMD

Post by nil » Wed May 30, 2012 2:28 pm

You can still use HConsEnabler for Demo to test out the console. (Though I wonder if the console is broken in demo too, I think it would be).
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Re: HaloMD

Post by Moxus » Thu May 31, 2012 3:34 am

I'm sorry that I've been out for the last two pages. To address some of the questions/discussion about Crossing:
  • • I did not intend for three Ghosts on the bottom level by default. There should be one on each side.

    • I did not make complicated changes to bitmaps or anything else to fix Crossing's bridge problems - subtle adjustments in the alignment of the two pieces will fix the problem.

    • The Banshees are meant to be "impossible" to get to; when I released the map, even I didn't know how to get to them. Modzy, if I remember correctly, actually found out how to do it back when it was released.
To cover most of the rest of the discussion, I'd just like to ask: if you want to change Crossing, could you ask me first? Map making is a pretty personal affair, and I think you'd find that a lot of map makers put a lot of themselves into the maps they make. That in mind, it can feel a bit bitter to be disregarded when something you've made needs work.

-=Moxus=-
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Re: HaloMD

Post by Dead Site » Thu May 31, 2012 11:30 am

Going to ask this here: Graphics Settings: Rendering Pipeline: Advanced Px Shaders > Pixel + Vertex?
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Re: HaloMD

Post by nil » Thu May 31, 2012 11:38 am

Moxus, what do you think about the energy sword model that Taxi (not sparky) had placed? It's Halo 1-ish.

We need to make decisions. Even if mistakes are made along the way, It is better than doing nothing. Looking at changes made and discussing them is better than requesting to make changes. This part of the project is open - make changes, post them, critique them, repeat, finalize something. It's good that you clarified some of the points we have been discussing since it means you're contributing. I also encourage to visit #macgamingmods IRC channel for discussion, as Taxi and I have been doing.

Very little (outside) changes need to be done to Crossing. This means that it is a very good map. We need to somehow fix the console problem though, which means the map is broken in some way. As for surface textures, I feel that we do not have a better improvement as of yet and that Sparky's is incomplete, but I don't think it is a priority right now.

Like I said before though, I want to get an official release out within a week.

Cronos: Advanced pixel shaders is "higher" quality, but may have some glitches on some graphics card. The only way to figure out is to test the different shader options, and see which one works best.

[EDIT]: Taxi made some more adjustments to Barrier. The plasma rifles on the ground are now needlers like in the original version. Also the easter egg "broke" in the conversion, so Taxi fixed it like it was in the original. And, the side teleporters are now teleporter boxes, fixing the "drift" problem (also allows interesting hiding behind it in overshield area). Here's a link: http://www.mediafire.com/?9prv24mqv36jkkg
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Re: HaloMD

Post by TaxiService » Thu May 31, 2012 12:53 pm

­


So what are you waiting for? Be hip and join us in the IRC channel! B)

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Re: HaloMD

Post by Moxus » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:03 am

The model is good, and I realize the urgency in pumping out a version within a week. If I have the time (I'm a bit busy now-a-days), I'll try rebuilding the map from scratch. My hope is that perhaps that will resolve the console problem if I can avoid a lot of scenery duplications, or at least allow us to pinpoint where it is the console goes awry.

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Re: HaloMD

Post by Sparky » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:37 am

nil wrote:You can still use HConsEnabler for Demo to test out the console. (Though I wonder if the console is broken in demo too, I think it would be).
I can just test the console in Halo Custom Edition to see if it breaks there.
Moxus wrote:I'm sorry that I've been out for the last two pages. To address some of the questions/discussion about Crossing:
  • • I did not intend for three Ghosts on the bottom level by default. There should be one on each side.
    There is now just one on each side and so tell me if you prefer this in CTF, Slayer, KOTH and/or Oddball.
    • I did not make complicated changes to bitmaps or anything else to fix Crossing's bridge problems - subtle adjustments in the alignment of the two pieces will fix the problem.
    Again, I could have made a video showing myself making the changes and you would see that it's an issue with the model that should be corrected, because realigning one side makes the other side off.
    • The Banshees are meant to be "impossible" to get to; when I released the map, even I didn't know how to get to them. Modzy, if I remember correctly, actually found out how to do it back when it was released.
    Can probably take a ghost over the health pack and exit onto the platform, but I have already tried that in the past.
To cover most of the rest of the discussion, I'd just like to ask: if you want to change Crossing, could you ask me first? Map making is a pretty personal affair, and I think you'd find that a lot of map makers put a lot of themselves into the maps they make. That in mind, it can feel a bit bitter to be disregarded when something you've made needs work.
How very graceful and precise of you to explain it; yet certainly I understand this point and have already been sensitive to it by not straying from what was already in the map and by only improving what was overly ugly by limitations of the method of modding.

-=Moxus=-
Cronos Dage wrote:Going to ask this here: Graphics Settings: Rendering Pipeline: Advanced Px Shaders > Pixel + Vertex?
how does this relate, what the context is it's?
Moxus wrote:The model is good, and I realize the urgency in pumping out a version within a week. If I have the time (I'm a bit busy now-a-days), I'll try rebuilding the map from scratch. My hope is that perhaps that will resolve the console problem if I can avoid a lot of scenery duplications, or at least allow us to pinpoint where it is the console goes awry.

-=Moxus=-
What did you say is good? The procedure for development is useful in getting this moving, but that doesn't mean it's good. I only know of one thing that is good and it has nothing to do with oatmeal cookies. I've already "rebuit the map from scratch" and it did not resolve the console problem. Please do not waste your time making a separate map unless you are meaning to say it will be a different mod and you would rather use that different mod instead. I'm already in the process of determining what the problem is, so leave that much to me for now and just give the "OK" or "NO WAI" to whatever "enhancements" I put forth.

By the way, would you mind if I re-extracted the old "base1" model from Infinity or a30?

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nil
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Re: HaloMD

Post by nil » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:07 am

Sparky wrote:
Cronos Dage wrote:Going to ask this here: Graphics Settings: Rendering Pipeline: Advanced Px Shaders > Pixel + Vertex?
how does this relate, what the context is it's?
Just HaloMD / Halo graphics settings.
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Re: HaloMD

Post by Moxus » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:38 am

Sparky wrote: There is now just one on each side and so tell me if you prefer this in CTF, Slayer, KOTH and/or Oddball.
Sounds good. Did you leave spots for the others, and change the netgame flags, or did you just remove the spawn points?
Sparky wrote:Again, I could have made a video showing myself making the changes and you would see that it's an issue with the model that should be corrected, because realigning one side makes the other side off.
I'm fairly certain that I managed to fix this myself without any model modification; I can't look at the original right now because I'm not on a PPC, but I remember working on this problem for a while, and I'm fairly certain I fixed it.
Sparky wrote:Can probably take a ghost over the health pack and exit onto the platform, but I have already tried that in the past.
You know the little shafts on the a30 platforms where the beam would normally shoot out? The collision model is weak for that hole on the side facing the shotguns at the back of each base. If you bring a Ghost up there, run at the wall sideways, and get out just as the vehicle is hitting, you'll glitch through the wall and fall into the base's geometry. You can then easily walk out to the Banshee platform.

Satisfied that it's easy enough now?
Sparky wrote:How very graceful and precise of you to explain it; yet certainly I understand this point and have already been sensitive to it by not straying from what was already in the map and by only improving what was overly ugly by limitations of the method of modding.
I'm grateful you find it precise and graceful; I spent a long time getting that to come out right. And I appreciate what you say, but what might appear as an ugly limitation due to the method of modding may actually be an intentional design decision. That's why I felt the need to make that statement.
Sparky wrote:What did you say is good? The procedure for development is useful in getting this moving, but that doesn't mean it's good. I only know of one thing that is good and it has nothing to do with oatmeal cookies. I've already "rebuit the map from scratch" and it did not resolve the console problem. Please do not waste your time making a separate map unless you are meaning to say it will be a different mod and you would rather use that different mod instead. I'm already in the process of determining what the problem is, so leave that much to me for now and just give the "OK" or "NO WAI" to whatever "enhancements" I put forth.
I meant the Energy Sword Model.
nil wrote:Moxus, what do you think about the energy sword model that Taxi (not sparky) had placed? It's Halo 1-ish.
How did you go about building the map from scratch? That way I know if what I had planned was as fundamental as what you did.

-=Moxus=-
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