PowerPC support questions

Everything about Halo and its mods.

Moderator: Halo Moderators

User avatar
3371-Alpha
Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:24 pm

Re: PowerPC support questions

Post by 3371-Alpha » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:11 pm

nil wrote:I'm not sure if I'd add it to old_releases page or as a small link for an alternative version (like for last 10.5 & 10.6 compatible version), but it also may depend on how functional & stable the build is. I also don't want to add it in a way that makes it sound like we officially maintain it. Unless a *lot* of work is put into it, a ppc compatible build is going to have less functionality than we intended to have.
If I was able to back port the latest version & form a group that continues to do so, would you be willing to officially support it.
nil wrote:There might be a defect with how MD plays or sets up campaign maps, although I have not been able to reproduce it, and don't have much info on it.
It's worth noting that you may also want to add a halo-like UI (just like the retail version) as it adds to the feel. Just a thought.
nil wrote:We have a simple model where we either have one latest version that we support & maintain, or an archive of older versions we used to support in the past. Considering 10.6 and 32-bit intel Macs are too much of a pain to support for the latest app now, it's unlikely PPC support will reach its way better in there.
I'm actually an amateur coder so I can't guarantee success, but I'll give it my best whack.
nil wrote:1.0b26 still supported 10.5 intel, which in our git repository was released at changeset d335a1ecebe49627834d925d9f933a00aec406fa. However, b26 added custom maps to the in-game map selection by using an extension written for x86, so 1.0b23 (changeset 729784dc24023708e6f2c959bed6d0d695cf2df1) may be easier for getting the old way of mod hosting to work (by choosing a mod from the menu bar of the lobby app). 1.0 added being able to play the full campaign, although this is just reverting a trivial limitation we intentionally placed from the beginning. It is probably feasible to build it for PPC from one of those changesets but it will still require code changes, including a no-op to a chdir() function in the PPC portion of the UB binary, and probably it's easier to exclude the MD extensions rather than re-write them. There may be some creating user profile code that may be wrong because Halo writes different files based on the architecture with a slightly different data format (because, poorly ported...) - so the user profile/name code probably has to be removed as well, or rewritten.
One thing I think we can both agree on is that before I can attempt to compile the MD wrapper, I should attempt to fix the halo engine via hex editing.
nil wrote:Code changes can be made to the UB for PPC or intel without affecting the other, extensions can be built as universal binaries having different paths for ppc & intel, the app can be built as a universal binary, etc. Nothing requires the overkill of having to download different engines or what not for different OS releases. The "mavericks" patch (which MD includes a fix for this too in an extension) for example primarily fixes a bug that is easily encountered in 10.9, but has been a real bug ever since the Mac port was released, just that it wasn't hit before.
Ok, I understand now. It's worth noting though that separate versions of the MD wrapper will still be needed considering that modern macs can no longer compile ppc binaries, and code created on older macs usually presents complications on newer ones.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon 9600 Pro 64MB (GPU overclocked to 438.75MHz, VRAM to 330.75MHz)
Halo 2.0.4 UB (Oberon's lobby patch installed)

nil
Halo Moderator
Halo Moderator
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:38 am
Location: null zone

Re: PowerPC support questions

Post by nil » Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:59 am

3371-Alpha wrote:If I was able to back port the latest version & form a group that continues to do so, would you be willing to officially support it.
Unlikely because we want to support a single version with the full feature set officially. It's not very appealing to add cumbersome/prone to bugs (and *different*) code that we've removed for dealing with older systems, and to keep maintaining over that.
3371-Alpha wrote:It's worth noting that you may also want to add a halo-like UI (just like the retail version) as it adds to the feel. Just a thought.
This has been brought up before but ultimately we decided that a native UI provides a better user experience with joining servers, using the chat room, installing extensions, etc. A native UI without any custom stuff is also more maintainable and will also be easier to port back to ppc..

[edit]:
3371-Alpha wrote:One thing I think we can both agree on is that before I can attempt to compile the MD wrapper, I should attempt to fix the halo engine via hex editing.
No.. I'd start with trying to get the MD lobby app to compile first, because it sounds like you don't know what needs to be done to the engine (if anything does need to be done initially that is), and reasoning about that can come later.
I am no longer active to Halo or MGM, and don't guarantee a response on the forums or through email. I will however linger around the discord room for general chatting. It's been fun!

User avatar
3371-Alpha
Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:24 pm

Re: PowerPC support questions

Post by 3371-Alpha » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:51 pm

nil wrote:No.. I'd start with trying to get the MD lobby app to compile first, because it sounds like you don't know what needs to be done to the engine (if anything does need to be done initially that is), and reasoning about that can come later.
Considering that the original halo interface works fine on older Macs, do you think it would be more feasible to create instead an "MD Launcher"? An external mini app that allows you to both browse and hosted modded maps to the MD lobby.

Also have you considered porting some of these mods to HaloMD?
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon 9600 Pro 64MB (GPU overclocked to 438.75MHz, VRAM to 330.75MHz)
Halo 2.0.4 UB (Oberon's lobby patch installed)

nil
Halo Moderator
Halo Moderator
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:38 am
Location: null zone

Re: PowerPC support questions

Post by nil » Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:14 pm

3371-Alpha wrote:
nil wrote:No.. I'd start with trying to get the MD lobby app to compile first, because it sounds like you don't know what needs to be done to the engine (if anything does need to be done initially that is), and reasoning about that can come later.
Considering that the original halo interface works fine on older Macs, do you think it would be more feasible to create instead an "MD Launcher"? An external mini app that allows you to both browse and hosted modded maps to the MD lobby.
That's basically what I was suggesting towards. The first step would be checking out an old changeset (thinking at 1.0b23) that was compatible with 10.5, and making a few changes / disabling a few things to have it build on powerpc. I used to have a ppc test build long ago actually, but I don't have access to that anymore and it was just experimental.
3371-Alpha wrote: Also have you considered porting some of these mods to HaloMD?
There's some overlap between HaloMD (much more so if you include x86) and what is on that page. The Mac version always had anti aliasing. Some of the console commands are available, I think. Map mods should be able to be applied the same/similar way.
I am no longer active to Halo or MGM, and don't guarantee a response on the forums or through email. I will however linger around the discord room for general chatting. It's been fun!

User avatar
3371-Alpha
Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:24 pm

Re: PowerPC support questions

Post by 3371-Alpha » Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:20 pm

nil wrote:That's basically what I was suggesting towards. The first step would be checking out an old changeset (thinking at 1.0b23) that was compatible with 10.5, and making a few changes / disabling a few things to have it build on powerpc. I used to have a ppc test build long ago actually, but I don't have access to that anymore and it was just experimental.
I was actually thinking of something smaller/simpler than just back porting MD to PPC. Rather than having it replace the original Halo executable (or act as a wrapper around it), have a completely external app that will search for the normal halo game/app in your applications folder and boot strap custom maps to it's engine. What ever version of the engine/app you have will be the version this launcher will use.
nil wrote:There's some overlap between HaloMD (much more so if you include x86) and what is on that page. The Mac version always had anti aliasing. Some of the console commands are available, I think. Map mods should be able to be applied the same/similar way.
Some of these we don't have, such as the assault rifle hud glitch. It's also worth noting that whenever I attempt to input a console command, it tells me "you cannot perform this action now" even when I exit to the main menu.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon 9600 Pro 64MB (GPU overclocked to 438.75MHz, VRAM to 330.75MHz)
Halo 2.0.4 UB (Oberon's lobby patch installed)

nil
Halo Moderator
Halo Moderator
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:38 am
Location: null zone

Re: PowerPC support questions

Post by nil » Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:29 pm

3371-Alpha wrote: I was actually thinking of something smaller/simpler than just back porting MD to PPC. Rather than having it replace the original Halo executable (or act as a wrapper around it), have a completely external app that will search for the normal halo game/app in your applications folder and boot strap custom maps to it's engine. What ever version of the engine/app you have will be the version this launcher will use.
Uh, well, I think back porting is much easier, but if you want to create something else, then feel free to try!

Bitmap mods can just be transferred over, it's not like we don't "have" them. I'm not changing the default set of maps we provide at this stage. Don't know about console.

I almost feel like I'm exerting too much time for contributing in this topic now..
I am no longer active to Halo or MGM, and don't guarantee a response on the forums or through email. I will however linger around the discord room for general chatting. It's been fun!

User avatar
3371-Alpha
Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:24 pm

Re: PowerPC support questions

Post by 3371-Alpha » Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:38 pm

nil wrote:I almost feel like I'm exerting too much time for contributing in this topic now..
Sorry for tangenting and bringing this thread out longer then it needed to be, I'm an amateur programmer/modder & just wanted a bit of advice on things. That was all.
PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0GHz 2003 (Model: 7,2)
Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard)
7GB RAM (OWC PC-3200U-30330 DDR SDRAM 400MHz)
ATi Radeon 9600 Pro 64MB (GPU overclocked to 438.75MHz, VRAM to 330.75MHz)
Halo 2.0.4 UB (Oberon's lobby patch installed)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests