[WIP] Water

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Sparky
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Re: [WIP] Water

Post by Sparky » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:15 pm

DirectX? Darn.
Well, SwordEdit has shown that the game map files can be rendered using OpenGL.
Has anyone here tried using OpenCL, an Apple technology?
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Re: [WIP] Water

Post by Mgalekgolo » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:10 pm

I, have used CL. I do not, however rembmber what for.
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Re: [WIP] Water

Post by Dirk Gently » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:00 pm

Sparky wrote:DirectX? Darn.
Well, SwordEdit has shown that the game map files can be rendered using OpenGL.
Has anyone here tried using OpenCL, an Apple technology?
you even know what you read?

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Re: [WIP] Water

Post by Sparky » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:14 am

OpenCL is Apple's approach to graphics and high computations handling on multi-core CPUs and GPUs.
http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Performance/Conceptual/OpenCL_MacProgGuide/WhatisOpenCL/WhatisOpenCL.html%23//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40008312-CH107-SW3 wrote:Introduced with Mac OS X v10.6, OpenCL is a Mac OS X framework as well as an open standard for writing applications that make use of GPUs and multi-core CPUs. Using OpenCL you can make your applications faster by moving the most time-consuming routines to a separate device within the system (most commonly, a GPU). OpenCL abstracts the nuances of the particular hardware so you don’t need to write vendor-specific code in order to offload computation.
EDIT: hence the edit.
Last edited by Sparky on Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [WIP] Water

Post by Dirk Gently » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:18 am

Sparky wrote:OpenCL is Apple's approach to graphics handling on multi-core CPUs and GPUs.
http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Performance/Conceptual/OpenCL_MacProgGuide/WhatisOpenCL/WhatisOpenCL.html%23//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40008312-CH107-SW3 wrote:Introduced with Mac OS X v10.6, OpenCL is a Mac OS X framework as well as an open standard for writing applications that make use of GPUs and multi-core CPUs. Using OpenCL you can make your applications faster by moving the most time-consuming routines to a separate device within the system (most commonly, a GPU). OpenCL abstracts the nuances of the particular hardware so you don’t need to write vendor-specific code in order to offload computation.
What you said, makes no sense.

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Re: [WIP] Water

Post by Sparky » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:29 am

And also:
http://developer.apple.com/technologies/mac/features.html wrote:OpenCL
Open Computing Language makes it possible for developers to tap the vast gigaflops of computing power currently in the graphics processor and use it for any application.
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Re: [WIP] Water

Post by Dirk Gently » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:31 am

You seriously have no idea what I was talking about.

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Re: [WIP] Water

Post by Dirk Gently » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:36 am

due to the fact I am working with graphics cards (any nvidia past 5200FX pretty much) as not supported for this. Halo was never straight up OpenGL, it actually uses a version of DX libraries that hookup to OpenGL from what I understand. This means that without engine end support it is extremely difficult to recreate the original water effects. I have one or two videos on my youtube account about water shaders I have tried, but the main issue is that I am trying to deal with a fatal flaw in the rendering engine. This flaw was introduced after the 2.0.1 update, so if you want to play single-player I can whip up a switcher so you can have nice shaders, and then have it switch back to 2.0.4 for multiplayer. However there was a performance problem with the game in the original 2.0 release for intel macs that caused some very noticeable lag during local play. I have been working on it as much as I can with classes at uni and my current project which is recreating a modding tool for the game Oni. Once that is done I can refocus my efforts on the shaders and get that done. Unfortunately I cannot get access to, even by proxy, a method to recompile these for Halo PC or Halo Demo/Trial. It will get done when it gets done.

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Re: [WIP] Water

Post by nil » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:49 am

Dirk criticizes your post Sparky, because it has nothing really to do with his previous post. DirectX and OpenGL are low level graphics APIs and can achieve very similar things. Of course OpenGL can be used to render map files, it is like stating something ridiculously obvious. You do know that Halo on the Mac uses OpenGL, and it too, can render the maps right? The basic concept is fetching data (like vertices) and displaying it on the screen. Nothing too advanced in concept.

Then you mention OpenCL randomly, quote what it is, but show that you don't have the slightest idea of what we have that actually benefits from any one of us using it, or show that you don't realize its practicalness regarding our situations.
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Re: [WIP] Water

Post by Sparky » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:46 am

OpenCL can be used to more quickly generate lightmaps with Mac OS 10.6+, right?
I did a little research on lightmap creation, using page 771 ("Finding Normals from Polygonal Data" in Appendix E: Calculating Normal Vectors) in the OpenGL Programming Guide and some web searches.
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Re: [WIP] Water

Post by Dirk Gently » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:07 am

That is not the point here. Halo was written in directx and uses an opengl wrapper system to redirect the calls. You could render the game content in core graphic for all I care, but that is irrelevant here.

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Re: [WIP] Water

Post by Sparky » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:36 am

Does the original Xbox use DirectX, then? And was the OpenGL wrapper meant to translate for PPC? You said you cannot recompile the shaders 'even by proxy', but are the shaders used on the Xbox disc of the game different than the shaders used when ported to the PC and Mac?
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Re: [WIP] Water

Post by Dirk Gently » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:48 am

1. yes
2. No, it was used to run it on OSX since macs don't support directx at all
3. I cannot use this on PC because their shaders are encrypted and I cannot get access through the person I know at bungie. I am basically editing based on guesswork and how they work, as they are processed by the game's engine.
4. the shaders are different because they are for different hardware and binary platforms not to mention end rendering system.

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Re: [WIP] Water

Post by Sparky » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:48 am

Seems like you could benefit from the tinkerings of Xbox modders.
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Re: [WIP] Water

Post by Dirk Gently » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:56 am

How? different shaders entirely.

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